tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post210088570678581433..comments2023-10-07T04:07:56.527-04:00Comments on The End Time: Is it sinful to create or use art images of God, Jesus, and the Dove?Elizabeth Pratahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-30258258342582841072017-07-06T18:05:10.531-04:002017-07-06T18:05:10.531-04:00I've been in the church my whole life. Recent...I've been in the church my whole life. Recently..my lord Adonai has been awakening me to the deception EVERYWHERE around us! The church and most homes are FULL of graven images! The church and bookstores even sell them and make fortunes!! I'm 48...I have not heard ONE pastor teach on purging these items and walking in obedience...aka LOVE..to Yahshua! Yet...it's the 2nd commandment!!!! Yahweh often instructed his people to destroy entire groups of people and take nothing with them...due to the evil it would bring to their owe homes!! Maybe he knows the power of these items!?? The tiniest amount of leaven affects the whole batch! Please step away from man made teachings and study HIS perfect word. From page one forward. The "NEW" covenant is found in Jeremiah 31! His set apart day Saturday!! Wake up and TEST everything!!! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00680739722124493971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-19781776171410194012016-10-27T15:27:45.989-04:002016-10-27T15:27:45.989-04:00I don't understand that response Elizabeth. I ...I don't understand that response Elizabeth. I think Jerry summed it up quite well, and I can't at all see where his post contradicts the second commandment.Mr. Pavlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138871867027664339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-48339755808357644612015-10-02T19:30:50.720-04:002015-10-02T19:30:50.720-04:00In the early church, there was actually a council ...In the early church, there was actually a council that considered this question. With the rise of the influence of Islam, Christians began to destroy all images in churches This was called the iconoclast movement. Artists were actually crippled so they couldn't paint. After some years of disagreement, representatives of what was then the entire Christian church met and decided that, as Christians, we should not depict God the Father, but since Jesus was born and lived as a person here on earth, He could be depicted in that life. The Holy Spirit could be depicted as a dove (symbolically) just as you mentioned, because it is mentioned in the bible, also. As to prophets, etc, they too could be depicted. Not to worship, but as a remembrance, just like any of us might keep a photo as a keepsake of someone we admire. So, we are all still discussing this, but it is not a new controversy, and has been considered in depth around 1500 years ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-39350904003223041422015-03-04T19:54:44.929-05:002015-03-04T19:54:44.929-05:00Jerry the Messianic Jew, O how easily you dismiss ...Jerry the Messianic Jew, O how easily you dismiss the second commandment. don't "care what he looked like." I care about obeying His commandsElizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-77557785328913597722015-03-04T19:05:24.304-05:002015-03-04T19:05:24.304-05:00Why does it really matter what Yeshua the Messiah ...Why does it really matter what Yeshua the Messiah looked like? He is God the Son and one with the Father and the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit). Instead of being so concerned with his physical appearance, we should be more concerned with what he did for us at Golgotha and what he’s doing for us now by interceding on our behalf with the Father. The early believers didn’t care what he looked like and neither did their children. Sure, the pagan had difficulty accepting a deity that wasn’t represented by a carved image, but the Holy Spirit eventually took care of that. The Gospel accounts never discuss his physical appearance. So all we truly know about the Messiah what those of the 1st century knew:<br />He was born in Beit-Lechem (Bethlehem), he lived and grew up in the Gallil in a town called Nazaret, and he walked this streets of Isra’el as a Jew (Tribe of Y’hudah). He’s the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, according to his cousin, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist). And he will return to earth to establish his Kingdom. So what he looked like is of extremely little importance in the Grand Scheme of Things, at least according to the ancient Hebrew mindset.<br /><br />Shalom aleikehm!<br /><br />Jerry the Messianic Jew<br /> <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09915648670467948187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-46093128580249715052014-08-13T03:35:07.318-04:002014-08-13T03:35:07.318-04:00New American Standard Bible
It is good not to eat...New American Standard Bible <br />It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.We as mature Christians may be called to account for causing a weaker brother or sister to stumble and go into idolatory by the thoughtless use of images etc.alister mc fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11179906861214960335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-29675017074987057102013-05-03T00:23:58.704-04:002013-05-03T00:23:58.704-04:00When I was a little girl whenever I went to my gra...When I was a little girl whenever I went to my grandmother's home, there was always this picture about a white Jesus with long blonde hair, green eyes, white soft skin. At that I was sure that that was Christ Jesus. But since I've become a "Big Girl" whenever I imagine seeing the Father God or Jesus Christ I still see myself as a little girl and I'm holding onto God's leg and I'm smiling and looking up to him and He's smiling looking down on me. There is no clear image of His face but I know that He's my father and we are in sync with each other. And most of all, I feel the "Love" and it's warm and strong and I know that this my "Father" who's image I resemble. So whenever I see "Good" people, "Bad" people, disabled people, older people, younger people, dark skinned people, white people and etc. I'm sure that I am looking at God because I feel that same strong love and I know that no one or no thing can separate me from His love.lost little girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14223350314985405656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-71401095935090211072012-09-04T17:09:43.576-04:002012-09-04T17:09:43.576-04:00LOL, no worries. Yes, I'm a woman. I lived on ...LOL, no worries. Yes, I'm a woman. I lived on the boat with my husband. I know I write more analytically and less emotionally, which men tend to do more than women; and the absence of mention of having children also contributes to the tone of the blog as more masculine.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-79098439133431582832012-09-04T17:06:04.465-04:002012-09-04T17:06:04.465-04:00Not sure it was exactly innate, my father was a pa...Not sure it was exactly innate, my father was a pastor:)<br />On a side note I just realized you are a woman, not that it matters I was just under the impression that you were a man. I guess I thought that due to previous mentions of boat living. Sorry I sterotyped you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-4450576627155334762012-09-04T14:20:25.739-04:002012-09-04T14:20:25.739-04:00A few years ago, I had a crucifix hanging on the w...A few years ago, I had a crucifix hanging on the wall. It had an 'image' of Jesus displayed on it. After reading Isaiah 40:18~ With whom, then, will you compare God?<br /> To what image will you liken him?<br />I promptly removed it. I was a new Christian at the time, and people asked why I removed it, I simply told them because God told me to. Now, that may sound simplistic to me now, but sometimes, we must just trust what the Holy spirit reveals to us and obey. I have never got a check in my spirit about pictures in books, especially while teaching Sunday school, or my own children. Perhaps it was the placement of the crucifix, up on the wall...dipicting an object that may generate worship? <br />But then,(regarding pictures).. my daughter had a problem with the famous 'face of Jesus' on a jewelry box I had...she was apalled when I sat a candle on top of it...I had to remind her that it was only an image...not Jesus, as Jesus is in Heaven sitting at the right hand of God the Father...not on a cedar jewelry box! I have since put it away...as I can see how easily it is for a Christian to err. (As you've discovered in your research) God knew this when He warned us in the commandment!<br /><br />Now, I live in a place where there are several Amish, and they have some pretty different views on this subject...they perhaps take it way too far though, as they forbid displaying ANY image of anything in their homes...except for birds. (reason unknown)<br />When it comes to images of god's creation...I think it is important to remember the second command...Not to bow thyself down to worship any graven image. If you have a nic-nac of a dog on your table...don't bow thyself down and worship it...but, what would be your response to that item being dropped, and broken? If you would be devestated, well then, perhaps you have adored (worshipped) it without realizing it?..<br />Food for thought (and prayer).<br />~God bless~ LisaNever Forsakenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04537083795724752514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-47324341685983172952012-09-03T19:53:55.114-04:002012-09-03T19:53:55.114-04:00I believe the assignment of physical attributes of...I believe the assignment of physical attributes of the bible people is OK. David was small, Moses was a stutterer, Paul was small, bowlegged and strongly built. It is about when we do the same with God.<br /><br />I agree completely about the Romans verses and exchanging the creator for the creation. I think idolatry is exactly that. We get so many warnings in the bible about idolatry, don't we? I think that is an indicator of how easy it is to make the substitution...<br /><br />I'm glad you had the innate understanding of Who to worship!!!Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-69441978234748178732012-09-03T19:41:39.366-04:002012-09-03T19:41:39.366-04:00Quick, when you think of Moses who do you think of...Quick, when you think of Moses who do you think of? Charlton Heston in the 10 commandments right? I think it's natural for people to think or even assign physical attributes to those depicted in the bible. Noah, David, Solomon, John the Baptist, and of course Jesus...Is it wrong for us to imagine what these individuals may have looked like or for an artist to create a visual rendition? I hope not. When I pray I don't happen to think about what God or Jesus looks like, I think about Exodus 3:14, John 14:6, or Job chapter 40 and Revelation 19:11-16. However, I think the issue often becomes what Romans 1 v 25 explains....They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. And <br />Verse 23 of the same chapter speaks about exchanging the immortal God for mortal images made to look like humans, birds, animals, ect.<br />I too grew up in a Sunday school that used the typical images of Christ.......even though it wasn't explained to me that this is not what Jesus actually looks like, I knew to worship the Creator and not the created. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-79667138605083698022012-09-03T18:28:24.930-04:002012-09-03T18:28:24.930-04:00Let us not forget, while we are on the topic of im...Let us not forget, while we are on the topic of images and idols, that the "church" is full of them. From variations of the cross to translations of the bible to stained glass windows and the sort. <br />The images time and again brought trouble to Israel, not that they (the images themselves) have power but because of the unnatural value that was placed on them gave a place for the enemy.<br />Even the buildings themselves have been given in our time too much value. I know so many people who would be very careful about what they would say in a church building or in front of someone who was religious but will say and do almost anything otherwise, without any regard for God himself. <br />And as far as "getting after" someone for violating what we may regard as something very important, need to remember that first of all we are at different levels of understanding and the Holy Spirit needs to be the one who corrects in grace and mercy.<br />Some matters should be handled privately when possible.<br />I thank God for your willingness to be corrected Elizabeth, may it please our Father in heaven to give you wisdom and understanding. Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05171219693651832856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-18355849530436866802012-09-03T16:23:36.366-04:002012-09-03T16:23:36.366-04:00This is very important to think about. Acts 17:29 ...This is very important to think about. Acts 17:29 says "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. Verse 30 then says "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"<br /> I heard a commentator say one time, that when the false christ of the one world religion appears after the rapture, that people will think he is the true messiah because he will look like all the famous paintings that have depicted what Jesus looks like. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-21023035270689156932012-09-03T12:04:32.186-04:002012-09-03T12:04:32.186-04:00Thanks once again, Anonymous. You are a good "...Thanks once again, Anonymous. You are a good "iron sharpener" today.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-76084553452702328502012-09-03T12:02:56.150-04:002012-09-03T12:02:56.150-04:00I am the person who wrote the original comment abo...I am the person who wrote the original comment about using pictures of God. You wrestled through this post with exactly the same questions I have wrestled with, even using some of the same sources.<br /><br />I teach young children and have the freedom in my situation to use whatever I want to use in teaching materials (within boundaries of approval by the elders of the church). I have chosen to use pictures of Jesus and as I explained in the original comment, ALWAYS with the reminder - every single time - that we don't know what Jesus really looked like somehow woven into the story. The culture I live in has pictures of Jesus everywhere - all Catholic and Orthodox cultures do, so the children are exposed to pictures/statues/stained glass windows/etc of Jesus, the Apostles, other Bible characters and various saints all the time already. I use as many different pictures as I can: Old Masters paintings, simple line drawings like you mentioned, charcoal drawings, and so forth - most that are available from the internet. What I DO NOT use are cartoon drawings as I am personally offended by them (and many of the recent Sunday School curriculum use them, much to my sorrow). I use all these different pictures to try to help the children NOT form a specific image in their minds as to how Jesus looked. I do stay away from blonde pictures (but those are rare), black, Asian, etc. because Jesus was NOT any of those races - he was on earth a Middle Eastern Jew of that time period who had, as you wrote: "no likeness to commend him, no beauty or majesty. (Isaiah 52:2b)". (Someone once asked me about using a Black Jesus or a Chinese Jesus to help relate to those races and all I could think of was: Jesus was a Middle Eastern male Jew and I've never had a problem with Jesus not relating to me because I'm a white female American of Scandanavian descent instead!)<br /><br />I use the dove and tongue of fire to represent Holy Spirit when the Bible actually uses those illustrations in the written word. Otherwise, I only mention him (like in the Old Testament stories where people were filled with the Holy Spirit for specific purposes) and use no illustration.<br /><br />As a Sunday School teacher it is important that I teach the Bible correctly and try, through the Holy Spirit's guidance, to help the children understand who God is and who they are and what He requires of us. I'm building the beginning foundation that others are going to build upon the rest of their lives, so it is very important that I get it right - both what I believe personally and what I teach. My responsibility is much greater than others' and I am aware of that burden every time I teach.<br /><br />Matthew 18:6 "But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-45754412892780944152012-09-03T11:59:23.308-04:002012-09-03T11:59:23.308-04:00Me too. It bears careful attention. I'm glad t...Me too. It bears careful attention. I'm glad the commenter person brought it up.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-32749433046360228402012-09-03T11:45:02.047-04:002012-09-03T11:45:02.047-04:00Interesting, never really thought about it. What a...Interesting, never really thought about it. What about Nativity scenes? I think of it as a reminder of the birth of Christ but I recognize it for what it is.....man-made and inanimate. I'll need to study and pray about this. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com