tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post4301921353025630180..comments2023-10-07T04:07:56.527-04:00Comments on The End Time: Is Revelation the most difficult book in the Bible to understand?Elizabeth Pratahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-55998117220163727402015-07-22T20:34:32.066-04:002015-07-22T20:34:32.066-04:00I'm not sure anyone can understand Revelation ...I'm not sure anyone can understand Revelation without a good basic knowledge of the Old Testament.<br /><br />Craig GiddensAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-62848673728565194962015-07-22T07:39:56.169-04:002015-07-22T07:39:56.169-04:00Rereading your response here!
I get it! There are ...Rereading your response here!<br />I get it! There are wheat and chaff in every church and those who are the chosen hear and do what is talked about in the letters and they ARE the overcomers. Those who can't hear don't. The Spirit determines who hears.<br />And I agree that having come out of Judaism these would be examples of the past. That's why I thought it sounded Jewish and was to Israel. <br />I think I've got it!!!<br />Thanks, Elizabeth!<br />Hope I just made sense. Hard to do these things in a text and make sense sometimes.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-91427123626609352122015-07-22T07:27:07.339-04:002015-07-22T07:27:07.339-04:00Rereading john MacArthur right now! Have read the ...Rereading john MacArthur right now! Have read the others as well.<br />Thanks for the insight! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-77363495618360433632015-07-22T07:03:02.087-04:002015-07-22T07:03:02.087-04:00I think you were clear in saying the letters were ...I think you were clear in saying the letters were intended for Israel and this confused you.<br /><br />I DO listen to one person: Jesus. <br /><br />The Balaam and Jezebel mentioned are references to OT figures. Just as elsewhere in the NT the Sodom is mentioned, like the ark, the Exodus...does not mean the letters are sent to first century synagogues or are intended for Israel. Revelation was sent to Age of Grace, New Testament, believing churches. <br /><br />These mentions are references to <i>types</i>, and it is fairly clear that this is what is meant. For example Balaam is mentioned three times in the NT, 2 Peter, Jude and Revelation. None of these three references are specifically mentioning an actual, living Balaam at that time, but referring back either to history or as an example. As a matter of fact, since scripture explains scripture, <br /><br /><i>For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.</i> Romans 15:4<br /><br /><i>Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.</i> 1 Cor 10:11<br /><br />So the Jezebel and Balaam and other OT mentions are hearkening back to raise the memory of these things as an example to the churches, many of whom were still emerging from Judaism and would know what Jesus was referring to and the lesson to be gained from these past examples.<br /><br />My advice to you, if you will receive it, is to first let scripture interpret scripture as I showed in one example above, let the Spirit knit an understanding of the book of Revelation in your mind by prayer and being receptive to Him, and then find a cache of trustworthy commenters you can trust and use them too. I recommend John MacArthur, S. Lewis Johnson, and John Gill.<br /><br />James 1:5 says, <i>If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him</i>.<br /><br />The Holy Spirit <i>will</i> untangle the spaghetti understanding you have in mind at present, and clear it up, as seen in the James verse. It is His delight to do so because this will give you a clearer picture of Jesus, and this is the Spirit's ministry.<br /><br />Good luck!Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-76528837409620242782015-07-22T06:40:54.714-04:002015-07-22T06:40:54.714-04:00Elizabeth,
Nothing to be sorry for. And I am look...Elizabeth, <br />Nothing to be sorry for. And I am looking at plain text of the Bible, not listening to one person. Just trying to understand why things like worshipping Balaam, tolerating Jezebel etc. would be things that the true church would be doing. Maybe it is the description of the wheat and tares before the Rapture. I don't know. I'm staunchly against replacement theology so not saying church is Israel. <br />I think you have misunderstood me.<br />Sorry....<br />PamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-20129754441202680372015-07-22T01:31:11.793-04:002015-07-22T01:31:11.793-04:00I loved what our Pastor says when teaching through...I loved what our Pastor says when teaching through Revelation, " The book of revelation is not a hard book to understand, it comes with its own Devine outline Chapter 1 vs 19 " record the things that were, that are and are to come.... chapter 1 what John has seen, the vision of Jesus, chpt 2-3 the letters to the churches, what are, cht 5-20 God's wrath poured out upon a sinful, Christ rejecting world. worldCpt 21&22 And they all live happily ever after... OKAY! I know, that's not a bible study, =) but I can almost memorized that little saying (I'm sure I don't have it spot on) and it reminds me that there IS a clear flow to the whole book. Mac Arthur did not that chpt 1 vs 19 is like an out line of the whole book.. see study bible notes, anyway, great list EP. We all should read and get to know this book! (BTW I didn't leave out chpt 4, which can be constued as an interlude that shows the rapture, before judgement, but I'm not sure if that... ) best!! Barbara LAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-41546734158327033012015-07-21T22:10:42.783-04:002015-07-21T22:10:42.783-04:00Pam, it doesn't matter what they "sound l...Pam, it doesn't matter what they "sound like" to you. The plain text states they are written to the churches, which are named. (Rev 1:4, 1:11).<br /><br />If you choose to listen to an iffy and controversial writer who over the plain text of the Bible, you have more concerns to worry about than thinking the churches are Israel... Sorry.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-77251850193596726542015-07-21T21:56:26.591-04:002015-07-21T21:56:26.591-04:00The letters to the seven churches sound like they ...The letters to the seven churches sound like they are written to Israel.<br />I can't reconcile them with the Body ofChrist. I thought we were already overcomers.<br />I read E.W. Bullingers commentary on Revelation and he had some interesting things to say about who the 7 churches were.<br />I know he is controversial but it made a lot of sense.<br />Thanks for the help.<br />By the way that was also my comment above.<br />Pam. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-64155359652830664112015-07-21T19:33:32.928-04:002015-07-21T19:33:32.928-04:00Anonymous, what do you get stuck on?Anonymous, what do you get stuck on?Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-39598711963801221422015-07-21T19:31:25.883-04:002015-07-21T19:31:25.883-04:00If I can offer a few possible helps to your questi...If I can offer a few possible helps to your questions or concerns?<br /><br />--There ar enot many mentions of grace becuase Revelation is prophesied to take place post the age of Grace. Though the Lord has som commendations for some of the churches, especially Smyrna and Philadephia, when the rapture happens, the age of grace concludes and His long stored-up wrath is unleashed in whole, untempered fury<br /><br />--Believers are overcomers, but there are different kinds of believers, each living in a different age with different futures ahead. OT saints will inherit the Millennial kingdom, the time when Jesus promised He would rule among them and they dwell safely in their land. Believers of the church age will inherit New Jerusalem and rule and reign with Jesus forever as kings and priests. Tribulation saints, the ones mentioned in Revelation, will serve the Messiah night and day int he temple, but not as priests. Rev. 7:15-17<br /><br />-the letters to 7 churches were actual letters to actual churches in the cities and areas so named. Some of these churches were started by Paul, and he ministered in and to many of them either personally or via letter or designated overseer.<br />--Calvin's commentary on what ears to hear means: "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. These words were intended partly to show that all were not endued with true understanding to comprehend what he said, and partly to arouse his disciples to consider attentively that doctrine which is not readily and easily understood by all. Indeed, he makes a distinction among the hearers, by pronouncing some to have ears, and others to be deaf. If it is next inquired, how it comes to pass that the former have ears, Scripture testifies in other passages, that it is the Lord who pierces the ears, (Psalm 40:7,)and that no man obtains or accomplishes this by his own industry."<br /><br />does any of this help?Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-35492678998291993512015-07-21T19:26:28.587-04:002015-07-21T19:26:28.587-04:00Have studied revelation quite a few times and have... Have studied revelation quite a few times and have read good commentaries and have studied the Bible for 25 years. I just get stuck on that. Of course, I know the traditional view but wonder if, since we won't be here during the tribulation, if it could be for the learning of those who that time frame relates to. Just a thought. And you know I read and listen a lot to john MacArthur so I'm in line with what is traditional pre-trib, pre-mill.<br />Oh well, it doesn't really matter and one day I'll know, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-78141226301376124492015-07-21T18:52:50.709-04:002015-07-21T18:52:50.709-04:00The word church is ecclesia and translates assembl...The word church is ecclesia and translates assembly. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-36764998648730650422015-07-21T16:42:04.232-04:002015-07-21T16:42:04.232-04:00Pam, what are the "7 assemblies"?Pam, what are the "7 assemblies"?Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-78951254169006794942015-07-21T16:28:15.363-04:002015-07-21T16:28:15.363-04:00I've always had a hard time with the 7 assembl...I've always had a hard time with the 7 assemblies. It seems like such a Jewish book. There seems to be no mention of grace as far as the assemblies go and the message seems to be what the OT said about having ears to hear. I thought that believers were already over comers.<br />Then I thought maybe it was to the assemblies in the Tribulation since the letters seem to cover Jewish history. <br />I've read several commentaries but just can't quite figure it out. I understand the rest of it, though.<br />I'm sure it's just me......<br />PamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-3676400458689171132015-07-20T11:37:06.567-04:002015-07-20T11:37:06.567-04:00Tbh, Revelation is pretty straightforward, even if...Tbh, Revelation is pretty straightforward, even if you read it with wooden literalism (meaning that you see the symbolism as being literal), as I initially did when I was 11 or 12. I certainly didn't make much sense of it, but I definitely remembered the parts that I read. At such a young age, it would actually have been the books of Leviticus-Deuteronomy that were the most confusing, because it's difficult to understand why they emphasize religious ritual and genealogies so much. Only when you appreciate the significance of symbolism (Matthew Henry's commentary was pivotal to help me realize that many of the Mosaic Law's aspects were intended to be typographical of the salvation to come in Jesus Christ) and the importance of keeping track of lineages (since there were various promises made to, or prophecies made about, the descendants of Abraham, of Judah, and of David, it was important to be able to prove that such and such a person really was a descendant of Judah or David (e.g. the Messiah)), then you begin to understand the otherwise seemingly confusing subject matter.<br /><br />It's like that with much of the book of Isaiah (and others) if you don't understand who the different countries are that are being named, or what the historical background is. But the bottom line is that it's only difficult to understand because of one's ignorance. Further study will always elucidate why God's pronouncing judgments on Egypt, Assyria, etc.<br /><br />If something that is perfect is hard to understand, then the flaw must not lie with its presentation, but with your own reasoning. So we should seek to find what the root of our misunderstanding is, and change our mind about it. If only more people held that attitude when approaching Scripture.Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-30856499818481409992015-07-20T10:28:44.086-04:002015-07-20T10:28:44.086-04:00I especially like point #3. It seems obvious, now ...I especially like point #3. It seems obvious, now that you have said it, but I'd never thought of it that way before!<br /><br />JenniferAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-37036551210864833792015-07-20T09:11:29.881-04:002015-07-20T09:11:29.881-04:00I think most of the problem is that it's not t...I think most of the problem is that it's not taught, I don't remember Revelation ever being taught in sunday school, bible study or from the pulpit. However in September the Bible Study Fellowship is studying Revelation for the first time ever. BSF is an international, interdenominational Bible study. Every BSF class studies the same thing at the same time, which is going to be interesting. I would like to sit in on the kids class to see how revelation is taught to the youngsters.Doug Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05318930961031654937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-15789595268388051362015-07-20T08:42:24.128-04:002015-07-20T08:42:24.128-04:00Excellent post! Reading Revelation is what got me...Excellent post! Reading Revelation is what got me saved. My believing friends kept encouraging me to read the Gospel of John, but the Holy Spirit sent me straight to Revelation. It was the first book of the Bible I read, and the one that led to my salvation. <br /><br />-CarolynAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com