tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post1259629928565766091..comments2023-10-07T04:07:56.527-04:00Comments on The End Time: Troubled by Beth Moore's teaching, Part 5: Personal RevelationElizabeth Pratahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-1102173769226750772014-01-25T21:02:29.116-05:002014-01-25T21:02:29.116-05:00Anonymous, it is helpful, if you want to add to th...Anonymous, it is helpful, if you want to add to the conversation, to use words and not simply links. Doing so leaves us wondering what you're thinking and I'm not a mind reader.<br /><br />You linked to a bible page that scours the bible for all verses that contain the search word. In your case, you searched for "hearing God"<br /><br />The search result yielded a mixture of verses which include Old Testament verses. When discussing whether the current church members hear God's voice literally, it is not relevant to include OT verses because of course, in OT times, God spoke audibly and directly to the prophets, giving them new revelation. The bible wasn't concluded yet. After apostolic times, the Lord stopped speaking directly when the canon was closed. (Rev 22:18-19).<br /><br />In addition, to illustrate the irrelevance of some of the verses on your page, let's take John 10:27:<br /><br />"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."<br /><br />If God is literally speaking audibly we can hear His voice, then we are literally sheep.<br /><br />God's revelation to His church ended with the Revelation verses I mentioned. He is not speaking directly to His people and He is not giving new insights, new information, or new direction, as Moore claims she received.<br /><br />Next time if you'd like to join the conversation, please care enough to contribute your thoughts and not simply post a link. ThanksElizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-88614973506279832502014-01-25T20:00:27.140-05:002014-01-25T20:00:27.140-05:00http://www.openbible.info/topics/hearing_godhttp://www.openbible.info/topics/hearing_godAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-29440095608107219152014-01-25T19:58:45.803-05:002014-01-25T19:58:45.803-05:00I liked how Matthew Henry said "...Divine rev...I liked how Matthew Henry said "...Divine revelation in writing, though now it is our principal guide". This is via the bibleElizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-36964297952924029732014-01-25T19:40:20.474-05:002014-01-25T19:40:20.474-05:00http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/job/33-16.html
...http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/job/33-16.html<br /><br />JOB 33:16<br />Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,<br />God speaks to us by conscience, by providences, and by ministers; of all these Elihu discourses. There was not then, that we know of, any Divine revelation in writing, though now it is our principal guide. When God designs men's good, by the convictions and dictates of their own consciences, he opens the heart, as Lydia's, and opens the ears, so that conviction finds or forces its way in. The end and design of these admonitions are to keep men from sin, particularly the sin of pride. While sinners are pursuing evil purposes, and indulging their pride, their souls are hastening to destruction. That which turns men from sin, saves them from hell. What a mercy it is to be under the restraints of an awakened conscience! Matthew Henry<br /><br />Not the ears of his body, which remaining shut while things are presented to his mind in a dream or vision, but his internal ears; it is the same with opening the heart or understanding to attend to and receive the things delivered in this visionary way: John Gill<br /> Sealeth - He imprints those instructions upon their minds. Wesley<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-44613959281457872752013-01-25T12:36:58.415-05:002013-01-25T12:36:58.415-05:00My husband and I have had the same concerns about ...My husband and I have had the same concerns about Beth Moore. To the comment above, The bible is very clear that we are to discern what it is that we hear, and I believe that is all she is doing.<br /><br />Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15<br /><br />But solid food belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 5:14<br /><br />I think it is alarming that Beth Moore teaches in such a way that she brings large amounts of crowds. If she were teaching sound doctrine, she would not draw in such a crowd. She would not be loved and praised so much by men and women. <br />And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: Matt 10:22<br /><br />It is important that we as christians discern between the good and the evil, especially when it comes to whom we are allowing to be our "teachers". We are in a time where christians will be deceived and pulled away from the sound teachings of the Word of God into something that is more desirable, but does not bring salvation but destruction. It is always good to be on guard! <br /><br />That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: Eph 4:14,15 <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-29148665238015018162012-03-26T22:04:42.346-04:002012-03-26T22:04:42.346-04:00This is true about Beth Moore holding accountabili...This is true about Beth Moore holding accountability to God for her teachings, As all of us do. I however have been to 11 of her studies, my heart has opened up to how she teaches, she makes it true to life, she loves the Lord with all her heart, and has gone throught the same childhood trauma as I have and God has pulled her up and loved her through it. I for one think you are harsh and heartbreaking. I choose to worship our Lord with joy and truthfulness from His word, I also choose to feel His presece in my life, and rejoice in all He haas pulled me through in my 58 years. I say bravo to her teachings. I realize we are all intitled to our opinions, and no one knows if you are right or wrong. But I choose to depend on my Bible and God's love and peace, not fear . I feel sorry for you that you have not experienced that in your life through God. But God knows and we will all be judged according to what we have done to bring people to the Lord and our actions in that process. You may find out you are not as Godly as you think you are. But that is for God to decide. For me I will listen to Beth and learn and enjoy her truth in God's words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-52496983620339904642011-11-26T18:41:06.297-05:002011-11-26T18:41:06.297-05:00Hi Danny,
Thank you SO much for your wise and sen...Hi Danny,<br /><br />Thank you SO much for your wise and sensitive comments. I agree completely with your last statement especially. I needed that reminder.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-27185586459545059842011-11-26T18:02:07.645-05:002011-11-26T18:02:07.645-05:00Hi Elizabeth,
I have never read a Beth Moore book...Hi Elizabeth,<br /><br />I have never read a Beth Moore book nor been a part of one of her studies. To be honest, I'm tired of church bible studies that take someone else's thoughts (even if they are Biblical), when we could be studying the ACTUAL books of the Bible! Now there is a thought!! :)<br /><br />It would be unfair for me to judge Beth Moore soley from the things you have written, although I do appreciate your willingness to research before posting your findings. I find it difficult to base my opinions on second-hand findings, so I'll be doing a bit more of my own research I suppose. <br /><br />The issue I DO want to address is a quotation you made above: "'He spoke to me in the kitchen!' It is the result of a decade of charismatic emphasis on personal experience as a substitute for systematic theology and disciplined study. <br /><br />It breaks my heart to witness that Scripture/doctrine no longer seems to be absolute truth, but rather experiences and feelings. I'm so glad you brought this point up in your blog. Our hearts are so deceptive, which will mean our feelings are deceptive. How we need the Word of God for our counsel and not some "new revelation," which is actually heresy. <br /><br />Thanks for bringing it all back to the counsel of God. It's unfortunate for Beth Moore that she IS in the spotlight. That means she holds more responsibility and accountability for the things she teaches. It's not uncommom for many teachers in the limelight to "water down" doctrine in order to stay popular. In any case, while we do our diligence to point out error, we must also be compassionate enough to pray for those who are compromising. They may not even be aware of it and they need prayer as well that the Holy Spirit would convict them if they are turning aside from TRUE doctrine.Dannynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-56066691012564444832011-09-11T07:07:27.941-04:002011-09-11T07:07:27.941-04:00Elizabeth,
Just to clarify, I said, "God sa...Elizabeth, <br /><br />Just to clarify, I said, "God said AND what they say contradicts Scripture,". Unless I missed it, in this essay you only gave one example where Moore says God told her and it was about taking a Sabbath rest. My quote about God said was conditional upon whether or not it contradicts Scripture. Her being "taught" that she needs rest is not a contraction to Scripture. We can all get too busy and over worked and not take the rest we need and God may have to "teach" us to take it easy. Without consulting Moore directly, that may be all she meant. <br /><br />Additionally, not everything we believe as Christians has a direct verse for support. It may be in principle only: the Trinity or Rapture are two examples. Neither word is in the Bible, while they are both clearly taught.<br /><br />May you have a GREAT Lord's Day and enjoy worshipping HIm!Dan Galpinhttp://preachermandan.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-26831853887973125552011-09-10T17:51:56.046-04:002011-09-10T17:51:56.046-04:00Hi Dan,
Thanks for the offer of cats, but I have ...Hi Dan,<br /><br />Thanks for the offer of cats, but I have two and I only live in a two room apartment so I am full up.<br /><br />You said, "You have attacked her style and other superficial things. Attack her doctrine, her twisting of Scripture, or her taking Scripture out of context instead."<br /><br />I do not consider her comportment superficial. The bible does not either. Not for teachers of the word, anyway. In part 1, I used four verses that specify exactly how bible teachers and elders are supposed to behave when they teach. If Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit considered it worthy enough to be included in scripture, then it is not superficial.<br /><br />You asked for examples of where Mrs Moore has said "God said" and I gave examples in this essay. With links. And discussion of how they vary from scripture. <br /><br />Finally, you said overall that you wanted more specificity, particularly in "her twisting of Scripture, or her taking Scripture out of context instead." I've written about Mrs Moore 12 times. I think that is enough specificity, examples, and verse discussion of how, why, and where I believe she is off the rails.<br /><br />Best to you and I hope you have a nice rest of the weekend...Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-49261727084571445322011-09-10T17:39:02.506-04:002011-09-10T17:39:02.506-04:00Elizabeth,
A side note, I read your profile and ...Elizabeth, <br /><br />A side note, I read your profile and you care about cats, do you want a few more cats? My mom is developing an allergic reaction and we are trying to find a home.<br /><br />On to my comment and please don't take this as a negative to your blog, it's good that you do this. I do it in a way on my website. <br /><br />Scripture is clear that God talks to us whether via the HS promoting as you affirmed when you felt Him promoting and you followed it by going to a Beth Moore event or through Scripture or through others and circumstance. That's not the issue, He does it and will until His return, Eph 4:11-13 & Mat 10:19-20, are two examples. The test we are to do is to match what someone says God told them, which they may be telling others, and what Scripture says; if what is "proclaimed" does not match Scripture there's an issue to address, if not, there's not. It's that simple.<br /><br />Lest you think otherwise I'm not defending Moore, I'm not a fan of Moore because of her doctrine. If God told her or lead her to the zoo, big deal. IF God "told her" something that is contrary to Scripture, SPEAK OUT. <br /><br />You have attacked her style and other superficial things. Attack her doctrine, her twisting of Scripture, or her taking Scripture out of context instead. <br /><br />One such example. I tend to do things in a routine. I had a bunch of errands to run. As I was leaving my subdivision I usual turn right, to the errands making a circle and return from the other direction, however on that day I believe God told me to do the errands in the opposite direction. I resisted at first to do my routine, but yielded at the entrance of the subdivision and did as God told me. My last stop became my first and I was able to help someone in need that I would not have been able to if I'd gone the opposite direction. I would have been there too late in the day. I have no Scripture to support the voice I heard tell me to go the way I did. I followed what did not contradict Scripture and was used by God. <br /><br />I know for a fact God want's to use us more then we let Him because we don't listen, I've seen and heard it in and from others and myself. As for Moore's day at the zoo or the fact she said, "I know that He knows." and you said: "That is spiritual arrogance." It's not spiritual arrogance to know what God has already revealed. You said you're self that you know He knows because Scripture says so. Do you think maybe she knows those Scriptures too? We don't need to quote what is obvious and what is well known by Christians when we are speaking to each other. <br /><br />Again, as stated, I'm not a fan of Beth Moore because of her misuse of Scripture and her doctrine, but we cannot knock her or anyone else that is trying to listen to the Lord and hearing Him and following what they think He told them to do, unless that person says “God said” and what they say contradicts Scripture, for we are to test the spirits. 1 Jn 4:1. Find quotes of Moore where she says “God said” and where what she says contradicts Scriptures and blog on it.<br /><br />Lastly, you are welcome to tare apart my writings (that was meant in a good way).Dan Galpinhttp://preachermandan.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-87180708575313140232011-08-03T06:35:26.803-04:002011-08-03T06:35:26.803-04:00I remain skeptical of that too. If a teacher uses ...I remain skeptical of that too. If a teacher uses personal conversations with God as revealed to them by their own claim, and bases a whole teaching on it, then I have a problem with that. In the beginning of the convention, Mrs Moore had said that she prays to receive a word from God. He whispered "hold fast" to her mind, and she went through the bible and then picked the verses that have 'hold fast' in them. She then built the lesson around those verses. <br /><br />While this may sound logical approach, it is fraught with danger. The use of the word 'hold fast' may apply to different situations. You lose the context.<br /><br />In one example, let's say the word 'love'. We can all identify with God's love, right? We all know what that means because He loves us equally. Well, does love mean the same thing in every situation? No.<br /><br />There's His providential love as when He sends the rain on the just and the unjust. That is one kind of love. Then there is the love He expresses within the Trinity when the Father speaks to the Son and the Son speaks of the Father and the Holy Spirit is the enactment of that Holy love. Intra-trinitarian love, they call it. It is another kind of love.<br /><br />Then there is His love based on obedience. He killed Sapphira and Ananias for lying to the Holy Spirit in front of the church. He killed Korah for rebelling against Him openly. He killed Uzzah for touching the ark. They were disobedient in egregious ways, and they died for it. A holy justice kind of love.<br /><br />So praying, hearing a whisper, and cobbling together verses that you 'feel' are applicable, extant of the context no less, is not a sound approach to teaching 11000+ women month after month. It is not proper exegesis, it is teaching by divine revelation. And that is a bad thing.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-17903758925916284922011-08-02T22:37:59.807-04:002011-08-02T22:37:59.807-04:00I remain skeptical of God 'speaking' to us...I remain skeptical of God 'speaking' to us (as opposed to leading us) through inner impressions even if they do line up with Scripture. You can't possibly be sure, unless he comes down and personally reveals himself to you. After watching people who believe God speaks to them in this way, one after the other, wander off into myths, I can't really ascribe much validity to such a teaching. But I really do appreciate your criticisms of Beth Moore overall! Excellent job.terriergalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08801794520433439408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-61780232326953364872011-08-01T17:25:10.313-04:002011-08-01T17:25:10.313-04:00Terriergal, as for the question on distinguishing ...Terriergal, as for the question on distinguishing between man's voice and God's inspiration, the link above in Divine whispering is helpful. Also this link from Christian Apologetics Research Ministry uses scripture to answer your question-<br />http://carm.org/questions/other-questions/how-do-we-know-when-we-hear-holy-spiritElizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-6491703349325979112011-08-01T17:21:30.790-04:002011-08-01T17:21:30.790-04:00terriergal,
as for the emergent church's tact...terriergal,<br /><br />as for the emergent church's tactic of questioning under the guise of seeking wisdom (but it really being intellectual gamesmanship designed to chip away at God's authority). I guess I could say if the emergent church did not begin the tactic, they have brought it to its height in Rob Bell's book "Love Wins." It was there that the tactic was stunningly on display in copious quantities.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-17330714627801053232011-08-01T14:26:00.553-04:002011-08-01T14:26:00.553-04:00Now, it is true that the LORD speaks to us today. ...<i> Now, it is true that the LORD speaks to us today. The Lord does speak; through prayer, the bible, circumstances, and impressions. </i><br /><br />How do you tell if 'impressions' are God speaking or you just thinking?<br /><br />I would say he speaks through his word, and possibly leads (but not speaks) through those other things. If God speaks to me in prayer how is that any different than what Moore is suggesting?terriergalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08801794520433439408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-2897992470412018492011-08-01T14:24:03.183-04:002011-08-01T14:24:03.183-04:00"This is because as the emergent church asked..."This is because as the emergent church asked and asked and asked what truth is, actually chipping away at it as they asked, we began to substitute direct revelation and personal experience for truth. "<br /><br />I'm not so sure the Emerging/Emergent church began this, even in recent times. I know growing up in a Lutheran denomination in the 1970s and 80's I noticed this sort of mysticism lite was epidemic at least among the laypeople and in some cases the clergy also.terriergalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08801794520433439408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-76429391273473869362011-07-22T06:53:11.014-04:002011-07-22T06:53:11.014-04:00Great post. It has me reexamining some things, an...Great post. It has me reexamining some things, and mulling them over. (Aside from the Beth Moore discussion)Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108533874121226153noreply@blogger.com