tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post3676300252616990189..comments2023-10-07T04:07:56.527-04:00Comments on The End Time: Should pastors do news-prophecy updates?Elizabeth Pratahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-66923423113786418802013-10-18T16:25:03.874-04:002013-10-18T16:25:03.874-04:00The clip Prasch is referring to is from 1980, 33 y...The clip Prasch is referring to is from 1980, 33 years ago, and the piece was from a Q&A (not a sermon). Here, http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1301-I/<br /><br />He preached it rightly in 1993, here<br />http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/66-48, referring to Rev 14:9 and stated flatly that if you take the mark you'll be tormented by God's wrath forever.<br /><br />And I would surmise every time it was mentioned after that date it was also preached rightly.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-72630015067305302152013-10-17T17:35:08.207-04:002013-10-17T17:35:08.207-04:00Thanks for the references. I read Rev 14:9-11 and ...Thanks for the references. I read Rev 14:9-11 and that is very clear, as you say. So I wonder what's up with Dr MacArthur saying the opposite. Chalk it up to "I dunno what's up with that".Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-85283642702343241502013-10-17T17:13:40.110-04:002013-10-17T17:13:40.110-04:00Hi Elizabeth,
YW for the link. As I said, I do b...Hi Elizabeth,<br /><br />YW for the link. As I said, I do believe Scripture is clear from the passages relating to the mark as found in Revelation 14, 16, and 20, that those who take the mark are finished. I guess you can read the passages for yourself. I am comfortable with my understanding, and don't have any problem accepting that good, solid Bible teachers can be wrong from time to time, MacA included. <br /><br />Thanks, and take care,<br /><br />Carolyn<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-76397579393766723822013-10-17T16:33:30.932-04:002013-10-17T16:33:30.932-04:00carolyn, thank you! I read it and listened to the ...carolyn, thank you! I read it and listened to the clip.<br /><br />Mr Prasch titled his piece on Dr MacArthur, "How the Mighty Have Fallen" which is impertinent at best and cravenly gleeful at worst. That is not how we speak of a brother who we THINK is falling into apostasy, as Mr Prasch does. If it happens, if it is true, we mourn. <br /><br />Secondly, Mr Prasch does not believe in Calvinism or cessationism- both of which are biblical. He does not believe the pre trib rapture, which he believes is "invented" by a Jesuit. So that tells me a lot about Mr Prasch I didn't know before.<br /><br />But most importantly, I ask the following. Show me in the bible where it says that anyone taking the mark CANNOT be saved. We have always assumed that to be so, me included. We have written, spoke, taught, and thought it to be so. But in reviewing Dr MacArthur's statement, I want to take another look. Does it say anywhere that those with the mark will *not* be saved? Let's take some time to reflect on what the bible says on this issue.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-50124179651204190872013-10-17T12:41:40.150-04:002013-10-17T12:41:40.150-04:00Elizabeth, I found the link Stan referred to:
htt...Elizabeth, I found the link Stan referred to:<br /><br />http://www.moriel.org/articles/<br /><br />"How the Mighty Have Fallen", by J.J. Prasch, 10/16/13<br /><br />I listened to the 5 min video which accompanied the article. What I will say is this:<br /><br />According to the written word, I believe MacA (and Howse and DeYoung) are incorrect on the point discussed in the video. Scripture seems clear to me that those who take the mark are finished (Rev 14; Rev 16, Rev 20). But I believe from the written word that there will be people in the last half of the tribulation who will not take the mark, but will be able to survive. One example - the Jews hidden at what is commonly called Petra. So I'm not in a twist over this issue. <br /><br />However, MacArthur's view (shared by DeYoung and Howse) does NOT mean those men are "slipping into apostasy", as Stan charges.<br /><br />There is a WORLD of difference between a faithful preacher occasionally erring (which EVERY preacher - and every believer - will do, we are only fallible humans!), vs a false teacher constantly spewing false doctrine. <br /><br />Just as there is a WORLD of difference between a born again believer who sins (which EVERY believer does, but their hearts have been made right with God and there is fruit of repentance), vs an unsaved soul who wallows in sin ("practices sin") as a habit of life.<br /><br />Personally, I've listened to at least 100 MacA sermons, spanning 3-4 decades, both on the radio and some from online at GTY. Yes, I have heard him say a few incorrect things, but not often.<br /><br />As for Prasch, his article below the video, he seems rather disparaging toward MacArthur, Calvinists, and those who adhere to pre-tribulation rapture teaching. <br /><br />For the record, I do not consider myself a Calvinist, as I disagree with aspects of and issues related to Calvinism, but I did not find Prasch's attitude toward Calvinists to be appropriate. The statement that MacA and others like him have "become false teachers propounding serious error " is way out of line.<br /><br />Prasch, from his own comments, appears to believe in a prewrath rapture. <br /><br />-carolynAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-17083322472478383092013-10-17T06:49:10.974-04:002013-10-17T06:49:10.974-04:00When Biblical prophets spoke they prefaced it with...When Biblical prophets spoke they prefaced it with "This is the word of the Lord". Because only the Lord knows the future and if the prophecies didn't come to pass they were considered false prophets and were to be put to death. Hmmm, wonder how that would work out today.<br />Prophecy in the Bible is all related to Israel, they are God's proverbial time clock. That clock has stopped for now and will start up again when the time of the Gentiles has come to an end and God picks up His dealing with the Jewish nation in the Tribulation. Jesus told the apostles that they should recognize the times of that season when He would return(Second Coming, not rapture) but wouldn't know the exact date. They knew what the Old Testament said and where they were in that prophetic time clock. They knew that Tribulation would come before the Messiah would come to rescue them. So Revelation tells of that time of God dealing with the Jewish people.<br />So what prophecy update do we need? Biblically there is nothing that has to happen before the Rapture occurs. I think that these times are just indicative of man in general. Nothing new under the sun. Evil still abounds daily and has been since time began. It ebbs and flows. I wonder what people thought when the Jews were murdered, not just in the Holocaust but the pogroms, and the Dark Ages. <br />Sooo, while the updates seem relevant much of it is just how it's been. The only update is wondering if man could get any worse. <br />There really is no need to look for anything outside the Word of God because that is the only place where Truth resides. Otherwise, it is just a roller coaster ride of guesses. <br /> I think true believer's are just looking for any sign that something is imminent but Paul tells us that we are out of here in the twinkle of an eye. Then things that are prophetic that are to be fulfilled will begin to happen. I think that most of us who check out the updates are just anxious for that moment of the Rapture to occur.<br />I know I am.<br />Maranatha!<br /><br />pamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-37744809430758413522013-10-17T05:15:14.670-04:002013-10-17T05:15:14.670-04:00I didn't see any latest posting at moriel.org ...I didn't see any latest posting at moriel.org related to any alleged apostasy of John MacArthur. However, I have to say firmly, and definitively, that I listen, read, and watch Dr MacArthur's stuff several times per week, and do the same with his older pieces, and have never seen one whisper of apostasy. What I see is a great biblical example of a teacher and a pastor who expounds solid doctrine- every time<br /><br />If you have concerns about him, as I said regarding another commenter who made claims about another preacher, please provide evidence. BIBLICAL evidence.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-56645158852448339492013-10-17T01:37:14.179-04:002013-10-17T01:37:14.179-04:00Pastors must strike a balance between preaching th...Pastors must strike a balance between preaching the Word in its entirety and allowing the church to "watch" collectively in anticipation of our Lord's return. As a believer, I've been learning to find that balance in the last few months. I found that I've been to fixated on the daily headlines that other aspects of the ministry don't interest me anymore. Discernment, finding the right balance in all things, is what we are called to do. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-11573893628039578702013-10-16T20:58:52.766-04:002013-10-16T20:58:52.766-04:00MacA is joining the ranks of the doctrinally unsou...MacA is joining the ranks of the doctrinally unsound crowd,to see these once mighty stalwarts slipping into apostasy only confirms how closest are to end times prophecy fulfilment.<br />See the latest posting by Jacob Prasch at moriel.org<br />Shalom<br />Stan<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-14549921345054426052013-10-16T13:12:53.370-04:002013-10-16T13:12:53.370-04:00I agree most pastors do not teach prophecy much le...I agree most pastors do not teach prophecy much less Revelation. I've been told to steer clear of Revelation by pastors already, telling me it would be too hard for me to understand. Through prayer, the Lord lead me to understand it and show me the teachers and studies to help me understand. If pastors would teach more of Revelation, so much more of the bible would be understood better. All of the books work together and if you don't study them all, you don't get the full picture. I've read some articles by pastors who tie current events into the bible, and as long as they aren't date setting, I don't mind. But this is only because I look to see what scripture they are referring too so I can research it myself to prove or disprove whatever is said. If they don't refer to scripture, I don't pay much attention. I agree though that when the word of God is taught without being constantly tied to current events, a clearer perspective of the "world" can be seen.Marcum5https://www.blogger.com/profile/07943593522063425319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-65281174023123581862013-10-16T10:43:40.608-04:002013-10-16T10:43:40.608-04:00I am going on my fourth decade as a Christian and ...I am going on my fourth decade as a Christian and during all those years of sitting in the pew, I cannot recall my pastors ever discussing in depth the book of Revelation, much less bible prophecy in the Old Testiment. It is a fine line to walk by focusing on current events while tying it with eschatology~one can easily be distracted from the Word while searching for His nearness in the world. So many bible teachers who are focused on end times events try to put God in a nice, neat box in terms of how events will come to pass. The truth is we simply don't know and we are not meant to know. The rapture will happen when it happens. In the meantime, we can still learn from the living Word of God to help steer us in these tumultuous times. gearedup2gohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07872944479199381150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-38796036817774060742013-10-16T08:36:09.993-04:002013-10-16T08:36:09.993-04:00Hi Elizabeth,
I too appreciate the general "...Hi Elizabeth,<br /><br />I too appreciate the general "timelessness" of MacA's sermons. I don't mind hearing current events in light of the Scripture, especially given the times in which we live, so long as (like hartdawg put it) the "THIS IS IT!!!" preaching is avoided.<br /><br />With regard to teaching on the rapture, it is easy to get burnt out by over eager "date framing" brethren, and also discouraged by reformed brothers and sisters, a great many of whom believe the false teaching of amillennialism, and often are quite disparaging toward anyone with premillennial beliefs, or who wants to discuss the rapture. <br /><br />So I poke around here, and listen to MacA (since he is reformed, but is correctly premillennial), and a precious few other ministries that I know and trust have sound doctrine. And of course our home church, as our pastor is premillennial.<br /><br />-carolynAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-10597871933493985382013-10-16T08:17:14.731-04:002013-10-16T08:17:14.731-04:00Hello,
I just love your blog it’s such a blessing....Hello,<br />I just love your blog it’s such a blessing. I agree with you the word of God tells us the catching away of the church is an imminent event and always has been. With that said I think we are in the last of the last and I don’t think we could have said that 10 or 5 years ago. I say this because today we have a country and a world where Christians are being persecuted, yes we have always had this but it’s intensified. And now we have laws that celebrated same sex marriages where 7 years ago we didn’t. Wrong is celebrated and right is persecuted. Again always had this but not with the level of intensity. We have apostasy like never before getting worse and worse. The signs that have always been there, since it’s been the last days since Christ finished the work on the cross, are now more intense and getting so every day. It may not be tomorrow, no one knows the hour nor the day but I don’t think it will be another lifetime I think it will be within ours. Even so Lord Jesus come quickly!<br /><br />Celida<br />Celidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03713439997328406269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-20874860022350552342013-10-16T05:55:44.833-04:002013-10-16T05:55:44.833-04:00I believe that there are many "pastors" ...I believe that there are many "pastors" who are afraid too say to much. A lot of that may stem from some of the conditions of 501(c)3 status, which IMHO is a mistake, because it regulates what can be said in part from the pulpit. And according to this site is unnecessary.<br />http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05171219693651832856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-86793184453184065492013-10-15T22:43:11.862-04:002013-10-15T22:43:11.862-04:00My opinion.....I'm not sure if you're talk...My opinion.....I'm not sure if you're talking about JD farag or if it's a general post but here's what I think, JD farag does the update AND an expository verse by verse teaching. that's fine, other preachers who constantly say "this is it" are to be avoided. I have no problem with updates so long as it doesn't come at the expense of teaching Gods Wordhartdawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554733830775640375noreply@blogger.com