tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post5287194561816680733..comments2023-10-07T04:07:56.527-04:00Comments on The End Time: "He went to Jared": Evangelicals going to RomeElizabeth Pratahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-58887778930899027532015-03-02T13:37:37.873-05:002015-03-02T13:37:37.873-05:00"So when you read "Catholics are not sav..."So when you read "Catholics are not saved" understand that the lengthier version is "Any Catholic individual who believes and accepts the dogmas of Rome are not saved.""<br /><br />That directly addressed Glenn's stated concern, as I understand it.<br /><br />As for people remaining or leaving an RCC church, understand that it's a process. I have a friend who was saved out of RCism. For some time she had been going with her family (still living under their roof) to their RCC regularly. She's been continually growing in understanding of doctrines such as submission, etc, and about a year ago informed her parents that she would not go with them any longer. Her concern may have originally been that participation would aid her ability to witness to them, and demonstrate child-parent submission, but eventually it became clear that she could not appear to support what she knew was damnable teaching. Neither I nor anyone else persuaded her to refuse to go to mass. She came to that conclusion herself as a result of the process of sanctification: regularly studying the Scriptures and having her understanding thereof illuminated by the Holy Spirit.<br /><br />And I think that's what Elizabeth's saying. I condone her forceful statements with respect to people who are truly saved *by necessity* leaving the RC church they're in. To speak in terms of gray rather than black and white is not helpful, and mitigates the perception of the seriousness of the issue. <br /><br />I don't believe Elizabeth would insist on a strict timeline, that if someone goes to mass with their family a few times after believing on Christ, that their profession of faith is insincere. But as with showing spiritual fruit, it is something that is Biblically *inevitable*. If they never leave, then it shows that their conscience was never provoked by it, and that is evidence of the lack of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So someone who is saved WILL leave a heretical church.<br /><br />The difference in how long that takes is a function of their obedience, gain of Scriptural wisdom, and the Holy Spirit's prerogative in sanctifying their desires. But I daresay someone who stays many years is evidencing severe disobedience, doctrinal error, and most likely that they simply didn't receive the Gospel message in truth.<br /><br />Reading what you two are writing, it doesn't seem you're fundamentally opposed, but the disagreement is over what way is appropriate to define the matter.<br /><br />In that regard, I 'take Elizabeth's side,' because my major premise is that those who are truly saved will not lose their salvation if they risk being offended by her words. And those who are not saved need to know that being in an RCC church is Biblically unacceptable and they are in danger of hell. And i both cases, those still in an RC church are in need of being convicted in their souls. And conviction comes by the Holy Spirit through hard truths (truths you agree to in letter, Glenn), not by giving every single condition every time you make a statement, and thereby dulling the emphasis off of everything said.Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-47351555064170321182015-02-28T16:09:51.664-05:002015-02-28T16:09:51.664-05:00I disagree. Mormons, JWs, Muslim, Buddhist, et al...I disagree. Mormons, JWs, Muslim, Buddhist, et al didn't even start as Christian and don't have anything close to the real gospel. Rome started with the truth, as did other "Catholic" (Copts, E.O.). There is no requirement for a Christian to totally understand proper doctrine to be saved. The Scripture gives only one requirement and that is to believe that Christ died for your sins. <br /><br />You conflate what the RCC teaches vs what the individual accepts. Those who have faith in Christ and yet carry burdens of legalistic rules will slowly leave the other stuff behind and I know those who have done so. They do indeed leave it behind as the Holy Spirit convicts them, but in the meantime they are still Catholics. Those I've know who continue to attend the service with family are not placing their faith in the Pope or Mary. YOU cannot know where they individually stand with God.Glenn E. Chatfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117405535707961903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-88891351683044766982015-02-28T15:43:13.610-05:002015-02-28T15:43:13.610-05:00Sadly, your RCC friends who chose family loyalty o...Sadly, your RCC friends who chose family loyalty over Jesus and stayed in the church were not saved. No person who is truly saved cannot physically or spiritually remain in a false faith structure, including Catholicism. Further, the RCC is not a 'corruption' of the true faith, it is no faith, because it is of the devil. It is the same as Islam. Please note the quote above regarding Galatians and belief in a false Christ and being damned.<br /><br />Not even Catholics claim to be saved. They can't make that claim. Theirs is a false faith. As Spurgeon said:<br /><br />"No one in the Church of Rome claims to be presently saved – completely and eternally saved. Such a profession would be heretical to them. Some few Catholics may hope to enter heaven when they die, but most of them have the miserable prospect of purgatory before their eyes."<br /><br />Why can I be so sure to say that when I don't "know their heart?" (although the fruit of them remaining in a RCC is bad fruit that tells us volumes)... <br /><br />The Holy Spirit!<br /><br />His ministry is to point to Jesus. He will not and does not allow one single sheep to remain in a place that lies about Jesus when His job is to point to His truth. People who are in the RCC where the Catholic dogma to this day anathematizes (curses) Protestantism do not have the Spirit in them. No way will an individual stay there, the Spirit's grace will pop that person out of the devil's church and into a real one.<br /><br />It is the same as if you said, "I have witch friends who appreciate the religion's sensitivity to the good stewardship of the earth, are troubled by some of the more bizarre Wiccan teachings, but due to generational loyalty, remained in the organization, and might be saved, because we can't know their heart."<br /><br />I don't declare NONE are Christians. I do say that any Copt, Mormon, Catholic, Muslim, Jehovah's Witness, Buddhist, Wicca, Native American individual who believes the dogmas of their faith structure are not saved. So when you read "Catholics are not saved" understand that the lengthier version is "Any Catholic individual who believes and accepts the dogmas of Rome are not saved." And alternately if they are saved, they will not accept the dogmas of Rome and will leave the church physically, just as they left it spiritually the moment the Holy Spirit entered in.<br /><br />Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-60147217126860579612015-02-28T12:36:57.290-05:002015-02-28T12:36:57.290-05:00Sadly, Catholics are not Christians.
You made the...<i>Sadly, Catholics are not Christians.</i><br /><br />You made the same claim about Coptics. I have to really disagree with the generality of your statements.<br /><br />Roman Catholicism is not Christian, and neither is the Coptic version. Both are corruptions of the true Christian faith. However, there are indeed individual Catholics (and I would suspect Copts) who, in spite of the organization, fully understand the Gospel and are indeed true believers. I have known many Catholics and have read and heard many testimonies by ex-Catholics -- all of which were indeed true Christians. They grew up in that faith and liked the various liturgies, but disagreed with some of the more bizarre teachings. Many remained with the organization due to family loyalties, etc.<br /><br />There are indeed true teachings in the organizations which can be discovered buried among the garbage, unlike the teachings of cults like the LDS or JWs who have no true teachings at all about Christ.<br /><br />I would suggest it is rather presumptuous with Catholics to declare that there are none who are Christians, since you can't know where their heart is.Glenn E. Chatfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117405535707961903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-71544128219942371912015-02-24T22:57:03.216-05:002015-02-24T22:57:03.216-05:00On a not quite but almost related note, have you s...On a not quite but almost related note, have you seen that commercial (around V-day this year) that was basically, "buy this 50-pound Novelty Bear for your girl. She'll love it!" <br /><br />Wasn't that ridiculous? I hope most people see it as a gag gift.Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-47264861586107479342015-02-24T22:54:17.257-05:002015-02-24T22:54:17.257-05:00I won't get too crazy! Christian liberty shall...I won't get too crazy! Christian liberty shall not die at my hand. :) But yes, I do have a zeal against a lot of the consumerism geared toward capitalizing off of people's emotions, especially when it comes to romantic or familial relationships, and it makes me think very seriously about whether that's something I want to accept and promote by my participation, or divest from.<br /><br />I'm partial to the idea of not having gemstones on our wedding bands, wife included. The idea of not supporting slavery or corruption is a valid concern. <br /><br />These are nowhere near rules that I would hold others to and look down upon them for not honoring, they're concerns that are personal to me, but I'll nevertheless share my thoughts in the event that it provokes someone else to have a different perspective. In that vein, I am thankful for your weighing-in, also. In my case, I don't believe I'm idealizing my future high-value purchases or setting myself up for inconsistency in my personal practice, but if I were, your feedback would've given me pause. As it is, I took the time to 'examine myself' to see if I was being as ridiculous as one might interpret me to be. I don't think I've gone off the rails yet. :) Just using strong language.<br /><br />Thanks also for not being very quick to condemn, yourself, in your response. Whenever this happens, my mind now goes back to the Scripture I've memorized, "they will know you are My disciples by your love for one another." One measure of that is how we treat each other with courtesy in on-line exchanges, in contrast to how aggressive they can tend to be, even when strong words are used or sensitive topics are broached.<br /><br />:)Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-270613091623103642015-02-24T22:43:11.523-05:002015-02-24T22:43:11.523-05:00too*
embarrassing grammar failtoo* <br /><br />embarrassing grammar failHakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-80787102975393779192015-02-24T22:42:55.741-05:002015-02-24T22:42:55.741-05:00Oh yeah, I didn't mean to obscure that by not ...Oh yeah, I didn't mean to obscure that by not pasting the text here, I just left it out for emphasis, but I was more evenhanded in the link itself. Hope I didn't look to brazenly biased :P :)Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-88171203418395736832015-02-24T17:31:17.604-05:002015-02-24T17:31:17.604-05:00I'm not going to engage in or allow a discussi...I'm not going to engage in or allow a discussion about holidays. It's not the point of the post. I know that sensible Christians can make distinctions between celebrating Christmas and celebrating May Day. (Asherah poles). It is also a matter of Christian liberty, and it is a matter of personal choice based on motivations. <br /><br />If one reads the context beyond the quote from good ole Charles Spurgeon from his discourse "Joy Born at Bethlehem," Spurgeon actually said that it's a matter of liberty and it is good to ponder the birth of Christ. That although some will celebrate the day hollowly, as if to Bacchus or Ceres, others will celebrate it purely. Spurgeon went on to say:<br /><br />"Nevertheless since, the current of men's thoughts is led this way just now, and I see no evil in the current [celebration] itself, I shall launch the bark of our discourse upon that stream, and make use of the fact, which I shall neither justify nor condemn, by endeavoring to lead your thoughts in the same direction. Since it is lawful, and even laudable, to meditate upon the incarnation of the Lord upon any day in the year, it cannot be in the power of other men's superstitions to render such a meditation improper for to-day. "Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-22299842067439040412015-02-24T13:50:18.203-05:002015-02-24T13:50:18.203-05:00Oh, c'mon, Adam. The jewelry ads are just ads...Oh, c'mon, Adam. The jewelry ads are just ads like any other. So you would never buy your future wife roses if roses were peddled the same way diamonds were? What about the ad that shows the wife being delivered a new car with a huge ribbon and bow on it? You would never buy that color or model of car because it cheapened a sober and practical car-buying experience with slick advertising and fast-talking salespeople? Back to the slogans that cheapen the marriage commitment (as you said).....take it back another step. Diamonds, and probably other gems as well, have a seamy and dark history when it comes to their mining and distribution procedures. Maybe we shouldn't buy gems of any sort as a form of protest. I suppose my childhood church had it right--they forbade the wearing of any kind of ring, including simple wedding bands, even to this day. So far they can still buy flowers and cars as they please. Adam, you've always had great comments, but I think sometimes you need to lighten up a bit. Not everything needs to be spiritualized. In case you're wondering, I'm well over age 70, and once in a while I know whereof I speak! LOLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-18604826553140547432015-02-24T10:19:58.698-05:002015-02-24T10:19:58.698-05:00( http://singlechristian1.blogspot.com/2014/12/chr...( http://singlechristian1.blogspot.com/2014/12/christ-mass-thoughts-from-spurgeon.html )<br /><br />"Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas. First, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it,"<br />~ Good ol' Charles Haddon Spurgeon<br /><br />I don't celebrate it either. It was an easy enough habit to start, since I have no money to spend on elaborate gifts (or rather, tribute) for others. But I will continue a non-regard for that calendar event with my future family. I have another thought ( http://singlechristian1.blogspot.com/2014/02/general-disinterest-in-valentines-day.html ) that gifts are best given spontaneously, since if they're planned on the calendar, then they are expected, and anything that is expected, if it is not given, breeds resentment. What place does resentment have in the context of getting gifts?! Because of this, I am much more in favor of observing historical dates with a family devotional time, and when it comes to *material* gifts, making them utter surprises that don't have any connection to birthdays, holidays, anniversaries, graduations etc. Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-51035259797371136532015-02-24T05:01:45.420-05:002015-02-24T05:01:45.420-05:00I know this has the potential to cause some anguis...I know this has the potential to cause some anguish, but one of the biggest avenues of entry has been the observances of "christian holidays" like christ/mass easter/estoreth<br />all saints day/ halloween.<br />I have over the past four years been coming out of those observances that are very important to many.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05171219693651832856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-52453120357456265292015-02-23T21:43:16.424-05:002015-02-23T21:43:16.424-05:00Another thing that I like about it is ("the p...Another thing that I like about it is ("the pearl of great price" comes to mind, along with all parables about the kingdom of God being like a secret treasure) that a ring like this is not considered as valuable as gold to most of the rest of the world, and for that matter thieves and counterfeits. This APPEALS to me, for the further symbolism that our salvation and our heritage in the brotherhood of saints as partakers in Christ's kingdom is something that most people don't recognize or see the value in. It's valuable to those who have it.<br /><br />That's how I fathom my future relationship with my wife. It will be absolutely wonderful and precious to us, but no one else will experience it and it will be "our secret," a constant daily witness to each of us how our communion with God is like that parabolic treasure hidden in a field, of immense worth to us but unnoticed by anyone whose eyes aren't open to see it, too.Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-7600379499635365542015-02-23T18:33:42.115-05:002015-02-23T18:33:42.115-05:00Agreed!Agreed!Robin Baynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02640632701164428942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-8894339458692254912015-02-23T15:31:30.091-05:002015-02-23T15:31:30.091-05:00BTW
I despise the "he went to Jared" an...BTW<br /><br />I despise the "he went to Jared" and "every kiss begins with Kay" commercial slogans. They so cheapen the commitment that a ring is supposed to symbolize that I categorically refuse to support either company when it comes time for me to buy any jewelry for anyone for any reason.<br /><br />I'm more of a fan of the Tungsten ring concept ( http://www.larsonjewelers.com/c-5-tungsten-wedding-bands.aspx ) because I believe the ring is a symbol of marriage, like marriage is a symbol of God's love for His saints. It is not fitting that the ring should be an end to itself, as neither the marriage should be an end to itself, but both should be a signpost to the greater spiritual truth of the relationship it symbolizes.<br /><br />That's why I like the idea of Tungsten, rather than Gold, for these reasons:<br />* both symbolize purity<br />* both are noncorrodible <br />* but Tungsten has "unbreakable" strength, whereas Gold is malleable and can be bent with comparably little effort for a metal.<br /><br />If I want to symbolize an unbreakable covenant between man and wife, hearkening to the Savior who cannot lose those He has redeemed, then I want the hardest substance that is also pure, nontoxic, and impervious to rust. And that's why I'd like Tungsten. Not for the novelty, but for the symbolism.<br /><br />Plus, the prices are more responsible.<br /><br />And I won't be going to Jared or Kay under any circumstances.Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-22084335546021641562015-02-23T13:43:37.166-05:002015-02-23T13:43:37.166-05:00The so-called "Christian" churches getti...The so-called "Christian" churches getting cozy with the Whore of Babylon is part of the great delusion. First they preach a watered-down version of the Gospel and then they slowly introduce the all-roads-lead-to-God mantra. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-86885517355627522542015-02-23T12:05:32.699-05:002015-02-23T12:05:32.699-05:00Max irony with the last part, considering Tolkien ...Max irony with the last part, considering Tolkien was at least a professing Catholic.Hakam Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114741274619345717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-31805155942468584042015-02-23T00:40:35.967-05:002015-02-23T00:40:35.967-05:00Excellent work. This is extraordinary, and I would...Excellent work. This is extraordinary, and I would say it is gold that glitters with His Hand behind your pen. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06530182400117936843noreply@blogger.com