tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post5326818755718781959..comments2023-10-07T04:07:56.527-04:00Comments on The End Time: Preaching hollow words: when pastors plagiarizeElizabeth Pratahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-48474627532600080332017-01-24T04:52:27.077-05:002017-01-24T04:52:27.077-05:00Hello Pastor Bartlett,
I am so sorry I phrased th...Hello Pastor Bartlett,<br /><br />I am so sorry I phrased that badly. I know that pastoring is one of the most stressful jobs on earth and that the burnout rate is high. I know most pastors care deeply about what they do and care for their flock. I'm sorry to have upset you.<br /><br />I meant to say that pastors have many <i>tasks</i> but one job. One job the Spirit has given. The primary responsibility of a pastor is to preach the truth to the people the Spirit has gathered under him. All other tasks take a second seat to that one job. His time must be guarded carefully so that the tasks of the daily routine (visiting, cleaning, planning etc) do not corrupt his time so much that he resorts to plagiarizing in order to get thru the week.<br /><br />In this, the deacons or elders can help him guard his time by taking on the administrative tasks, visits, and anything not directly related to preaching the truth, so that he can study, write, and preach. That's his main job. I hope I've made myself clear this time and not seemed to have dismissed your feelings on this.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-6822825680014578472017-01-23T11:46:40.183-05:002017-01-23T11:46:40.183-05:00I am in personal agreement that no preacher who ha...I am in personal agreement that no preacher who has been called of the Lord should ever stoop so low as to steal sermons and present them as their own. I understand the anger and the pain people feel when they discover this in the pulpit. However I wish to take singular issue with the comment made by Elizabeth Prata about how a pastor can be "too busy". Most people seem to have the mistaken belief that all the average pastor has to do is sit in the office and wait on the Word of God. I have been the pastor of a 200 member church for more than 20 years and between meetings, planning, counseling, visiting the sick, attending funerals, dealing with families, seeing persons in the jails, besides trying to spend a little time with my own family, many preachers are lucky to sleep. Yes, the clergy can be quite busy doing all of the things people do not see for 30 minutes on Sunday morning. This has never been a 40 hour a week job. It is fairly easy for even the most committed of preachers to find themselves overwhelmed. Please understand that I am NOT trying to justify what they have done. But until you have walked a mile in their shoes, do not dismiss the fact that the clergy is a potentially very busy job. <br /><br />Pastor Ronald BartlettPastor Ron Bartletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05265660471901623895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-88610782987310134452016-08-14T20:09:38.912-04:002016-08-14T20:09:38.912-04:00Thanks so much for the reply and the confirmation....Thanks so much for the reply and the confirmation. I'm going to read John MacArthur's essay as well! Thanks again! AnnetteAnnettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04064346938716117959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-9819555156874655902016-08-14T08:45:37.314-04:002016-08-14T08:45:37.314-04:00Hello Annette and Matt,
Bless YOU, I'm so sor...Hello Annette and Matt,<br /><br />Bless YOU, I'm so sorry you had to go through that... :(<br /><br />You did exactly the right thing by praying, confronting, resigning, and leaving, in my opinion. Exactly. What was telling to me, was your description of the subsequent behavior of the Pastor upon being confronted with the fact of his plagiarism. Sin happens, and depending on the Bible, which sin, and the circumstances, some pastoral sins may be recoverable if dealt with appropriately. <br /><br />However, AFTER the sin had been uncovered, he'd lied to you and the flock, he was casually dismissive of his error, and he said he was "too busy" and would likely do it again. He as good as said, "I'm fine in my sin and I'll do it as much as I need to because other thins are more important."<br /><br />Too busy? Pastors have ONE job. One. It is to study to show themselves approved and to then turn around and teach what the Spirit has revealed to the flock. To preach/teach. One job. If he is too busy for that, he should not be a pastor. There is NOTHING more important in this present earthly life, than to study the word of God so as to know His Son. Nothing.<br /><br />What would a pastor consider more important he is too busy to craft his own sermons for? Calling the company to order an inflatable for the Fall Festival? Proofreading the AWANAs brochure? Meeting with deacons to hear petty complaints? Organizing the pot luck? Acts 6:2 applies here. <br /><br />What <i>should</i> have happened is that he should have cried in shame before the cross and to you, have asked for forgiveness, have demonstrated an awareness of the fact that this is a sin (Jeremiah 23:30 which plainly says "I'm against the prophets who steal my words from each other,") and probably should have resigned or at least offered to, because he has fallen below reproach and had not remained blameless as the Bible says he must (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:6–7).<br /><br />How can you trust a pastor who dismisses his sin? How can you learn and grow in spirit and in truth when the very words from the pulpit are a lie? You cannot.<br /><br />Here is a good essay by John MacArthur teaching about "Every Pastor's Job Description" http://www.gty.org/blog/B130306/every-pastors-job-descriptionElizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-52999164603283797272016-08-13T03:18:10.433-04:002016-08-13T03:18:10.433-04:00Thanks for this article. It helped us a great deal...Thanks for this article. It helped us a great deal. We had been attending our church for just under a year when one of the retired associate pastors, not sure if he is a deacon but for sure an elder, approached us about becoming a member. We told him we would pray about it and we did. Not too long afterwards we were on the Internet and came across a sermon that read word for word from a bible study we were using that the Pastor said he had worked on for over 20 hours. He also said he had "decided to call it " the title he gave it. We were hurt that he would choose to lie and take credit for the bible study print out like it was his own. We wouldn't have minded at all if he would of just said that we were using a study from this other Pastor's sermon. But the fact that he spoke that it was a labor of over 20 hours and he had chosen the title was a prick in our hearts when we came across the exact title and sermon on another pastors church website from 2 years previously. We were grieved in our spirit because we looked up to him so much. We prayed about it for a week and then decided to call the elder, retired pastor who sometimes preached and also lead Sunday morning adult bible study. He went with my husband to confront or at least talk to the pastor about it in his office privately. The Pastor admitted it was where he got the bible study and that it only took him a few hours to prepare but told my husband that nobody is perfect and he apologized for hurting us but he would probably do it again because he was just too busy. His reason for claiming it as his own was because "I didn't think anyone would know." He also asked my husband why he was checking up on him and didn't he trust him? My husband got a call later that week from the elder and talked for about an hour and the elder really wanted us to forgive him and give him grace but my husband kindly accepted and obliged but we just couldn't go back because we felt like we couldn't trust the pastor anymore. We wondered about his character and the ability to lie like that without any remourse, it affected us. He hasn't bothered contacting us since we left and we mailed the church key to him with a little note saying we'd pray for him and God bless. But to be honest, we are pretty grieved and keep wondering if we are doing the right thing or making a mountain out of a molehill. Mostly because we are out of fellowship now and we are afraid we might not be able to find a good church and it's scarey to be out of the church. I'm really sad mostly and praying a lot and seeking God. We haven't talked to anyone about it. I wonder if people will wonder what happened to us? Please pray for us if you would. God bless you. Annette and MattAnnettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04064346938716117959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-70979879377067682542016-06-13T22:12:02.441-04:002016-06-13T22:12:02.441-04:00I'm so sorry! It IS sickening. I was sick when...I'm so sorry! It IS sickening. I was sick when I found out. Please pray for the elder whom you approached. This is a disqualifying event. He is now below reproach.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-53024215532659754622016-06-13T21:32:24.997-04:002016-06-13T21:32:24.997-04:00I just found out my pastor is doing this. First th...I just found out my pastor is doing this. First the past 6 months. Word for word. Not even memorizing but reading. I prayed and felt I was to take the information and proof the an elder. He was upset but so far has done nothing. Makes me sick.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-56626583631589121532015-06-15T11:15:13.075-04:002015-06-15T11:15:13.075-04:00Howard, I'm so sorry! I know that the response...Howard, I'm so sorry! I know that the response from our deacons was biblical but uncommon. As a matter of fact, he landed another pastor job at an even bigger church almost immediately- with full disclosure on the reason for his leaving (4+ years of plagiarizing). We a were all scratching our heads. No, not many see it as a problem. I pray yours will do so.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-74431020643202658682015-06-15T10:43:05.592-04:002015-06-15T10:43:05.592-04:00We just had a meeting with our pastor and his imme...We just had a meeting with our pastor and his immediate supervisor over the pastor's plagiarizing of sermons. Unfortunately I don't believe it was taken seriously at all<br />Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12239272118822066044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-15692602638377383922014-12-05T21:59:26.041-05:002014-12-05T21:59:26.041-05:00I left our church after approaching our pastor ove...I left our church after approaching our pastor over this. (week after week, word for word) he didn't know what 'my' problem was. <br />The church is now down to about 1/3 it's size,.. and he still does it :(<br />The good thing that has come out of it? those of us that have left, have gotten out of our comfort zones, and are closer to God because of it. <br />Thank you for writing about this subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-17385370970902386882013-10-23T06:00:04.223-04:002013-10-23T06:00:04.223-04:00Anonymous, I'm sorry to hear this. However, it...Anonymous, I'm sorry to hear this. However, it is not a matter of ambarrassment, like he has toilet paper stuck to his shoe. It is a matter of blasphemy.<br /><br />Satan has already brought division. He has the pulpit! We're all sinners, that does not mean we overlook it when it appears. In addition, pastors have a higher standard. (James 3:1)<br /><br />His plagiarism breaks the 9th commandment,<br />“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Exodus 20:16<br /><br />And the LORD specifically declared He is against plagiarism-<br />"Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, declares the Lord, who steal my words from one another." Jeremiah 23:30.<br /> <br />What you can do is-<br /><br />1. Pray<br />2. Gather evidence about the plagiarism<br />3. Seek the scriptures that address this issue, I listed a few in this comment and others in the body of the post,<br />4. Go to a trusted deacon or leader with your information.<br /><br />This is not a Matthew 18 moment where you confront him personally with his sin. Plagiarism is a disqualifying offense, because he is no longer above reproach (1 Tim 3:2). It is a church problem and we go to Titus and Timothy for direction.<br /><br />Do not hide behind the "bring division" chestnut. The church obviously needs division because he is dividing the brethren with his lies, and this will also bring more goats to your church. Satan is seeking to divide YOU from your church and perhaps the faith. Don't let him.<br />Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-54080884230987622342013-10-22T23:59:40.696-04:002013-10-22T23:59:40.696-04:00Oh no...My pastor is stealing sermon series and pa...Oh no...My pastor is stealing sermon series and passing it all off as his own work. I am too embarrassed for him to confront him!!!! Please pray for my strength! I feel like, " who am I to rebuke him?" I know I sin more than he does. I do not want to be used by satan to bring division in his life and church!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-29959934852912714472013-05-07T22:42:44.777-04:002013-05-07T22:42:44.777-04:00To Ethan: just in case you ever come back here to...To Ethan: just in case you ever come back here to read this.<br /><br />I'm truly sorry you took my words personally ~ for they were not directed AT YOU ..... at all!! But upon re-reading them, I can see how that could have been perceived. I was merely IN AGREEMENT with you was all!!<br /><br />I did not mean that YOU gave the rebuke. Merely saying it was hypocritical for the elders to do it -- when they themselves are not taking their own words to heart.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-17972655688106305152013-05-07T01:20:15.818-04:002013-05-07T01:20:15.818-04:00you dont make a point Mr.anonymous. my concern is ...you dont make a point Mr.anonymous. my concern is people dont spend time with the Lord. one of the brother gave a rebuke. I didnt say - i gave a rebuke.<br />all today want to see how the televangelist speak and repeat the same word by word. there is no revelation. we dont practice what the Lord says. we practice what the pastor says. you are correct on hypocritical (as Jesus said). but the whole point is not hypocritical. it is a concern of an elder who saw the youngsters way of copying things from others without getting it from the Masters feet. God bless you.Ethanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02431347956940928662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-15113291761100416222013-05-06T16:04:45.538-04:002013-05-06T16:04:45.538-04:00Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the verses and the thoughts. ...Hi Jeff,<br /><br />Thanks for the verses and the thoughts. I am extremely grateful for our leaders who are Godly, praying, and courageous, as well as loving and caring to the congregation as well as the sinning pastor. They followed the bible's precepts and honored God in all ways.Elizabeth Pratahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341086233512507156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-84212821774625142562013-05-06T15:55:31.908-04:002013-05-06T15:55:31.908-04:00Praise God for the courage and steadfastness in th...Praise God for the courage and steadfastness in the truth of leadership in your assembly. <br /><br />1 Timothy 5<br />19 Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.<br /><br />I have witnessed personally many times where things are covered as a "protection" of the church. It does exactly the opposite.<br />I had a group of "very qualified" Elders say to me when I confronted them on this very issue. "We did not do what 1 Timothy 5 say's to do, we were afraid of what would happen to the church and the pastor".<br /><br />When we do what Gods Word say's to do He is responsible for the outcome. <br /><br />When we do not do what God's Word say's to do, we are responsible for the outcome.<br /><br />As I read the part about the Wall street journal reporting, <br />" The sermon you heard on Sunday may be from the web", <br />It is from the web alright.<br /><br />http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+59:5-7&version=ESV<br />Say's,<br />Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save,<br /> or his ear dull, that it cannot hear;<br />2 but your iniquities have made a separation<br /> between you and your God,<br />and your sins have hidden his face from you<br /> so that he does not hear.<br />3 For your hands are defiled with blood<br /> and your fingers with iniquity;<br />your lips have spoken lies;<br /> your tongue mutters wickedness.<br />4 No one enters suit justly;<br /> no one goes to law honestly;<br />they rely on empty pleas, they speak lies,<br /> they conceive mischief and give birth to iniquity.<br />5 They hatch adders' eggs;<br /> they weave the spider's web;<br />he who eats their eggs dies,<br /> and from one that is crushed a viper is hatched.<br />6 Their webs will not serve as clothing;<br /> men will not cover themselves with what they make.<br />Their works are works of iniquity,<br /> and deeds of violence are in their hands.<br />7 Their feet run to evil,<br /> and they are swift to shed innocent blood;<br />their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity;<br /> desolation and destruction are in their highways.<br /><br />The web surely catches it's prey. I am sickened by the thought. <br /><br />Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05171219693651832856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-70829409787419356062013-05-06T10:26:39.670-04:002013-05-06T10:26:39.670-04:00wow, Ethan -- that's rather hypocritical isn&#...wow, Ethan -- that's rather hypocritical isn't it? I mean where you said that (from the pulpit of your church, I gather) that rebuke was recently given to youngsters for not spending time alone with the Lord..... **OUCH!!** "do as I say ~ not as I do" leaders, I'm guessing..??<br /><br />This essay reminds me SO MUCH of how students would buy the cheat notes to cop out of class study!~ and just use the cheat notes as something they themselves had come up with. My word, I learned way back in first grade to not be "copying" another student's work!<br /><br />I'm sorry your pastor did this, Elizabeth; I can understand your being stunned & heartbroken at first. Guess he's yet another one to pray for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2736720231951988221.post-36771651808856463242013-05-06T02:35:39.812-04:002013-05-06T02:35:39.812-04:00so true. i have seen it here in Dubai - pastors ta...so true. i have seen it here in Dubai - pastors take it word by word from the famous preachers and preach as their own. there is no time for them sit at the Master's feet and learn from Him. there was a rebuke given to youngsters recently in our congregation for not spending time alone with the Lord. Ethanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02431347956940928662noreply@blogger.com