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The Pope: how the Church will change, Dialogue between Francis and La Repubblica's founder, Eugenio Scalfari: (La Repubblica is the Italian newspaper)
And here I am. The Pope comes in and shakes my hand, and we sit down. The Pope smiles and says: "Some of my colleagues who know you told me that you will try to convert me."
It's a joke, I tell him. My friends think it is you want to convert me.
He smiles again and replies: "Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us. Sometimes after a meeting I want to arrange another one because new ideas are born and I discover new needs. This is important: to get to know people, listen, expand the circle of ideas. The world is crisscrossed by roads that come closer together and move apart, but the important thing is that they lead towards the Good."
Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?
"Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good."
Your Holiness, you wrote that in your letter to me. The conscience is autonomous, you said, and everyone must obey his conscience. I think that's one of the most courageous steps taken by a Pope.
"And I repeat it here. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place."
Is the Church doing that?
"Yes, that is the purpose of our mission: to identify the material and immaterial needs of the people and try to meet them as we can. Do you know what agape is?"
Yes, I know.
"It is love of others, as our Lord preached. It is not proselytizing, it is love. Love for one's neighbor, that leavening that serves the common good."
Love your neighbor as yourself.
"Exactly so."
Jesus in his preaching said that agape, love for others, is the only way to love God. Correct me if I'm wrong.
"You're not wrong. The Son of God became incarnate in the souls of men to instill the feeling of brotherhood. All are brothers and all children of God. Abba, as he called the Father. I will show you the way, he said. Follow me and you will find the Father and you will all be his children and he will take delight in you. Agape, the love of each one of us for the other, from the closest to the furthest, is in fact the only way that Jesus has given us to find the way of salvation and of the Beatitudes."
More at link
So much of this is wrong. The danger is that the Pope speaks for the 1.2 billion Catholics in the world, and he also speaks the world's language and they will adopt the Pope's version of Christianity because it is Christ-less. The Pope is fixated on the world, and not Jesus.
Where the Pope said, "The Son of God became incarnate in the souls of men to instill the feeling of brotherhood" this is, we know, NOT the reason Jesus came. He came to seek and save the lost. (Luke 19:10).
Jesus came not to deliver a 'feeling' but, "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:17)
Jesus came to live the perfectly sinless life so that He could shed His righteous blood on behalf of us sinners, die, and be raised by the power of God, conquering death. Jesus came to bring eternal life to sinners, not to allow us to enjoy brotherly feelings. We can do that on our own. What we cannot do on our own is escape God's judgment for our sins.
It was not men like Pope Benedict who was hellfire and brimstone who are most dangerous, but the flattering ones who speak the world's language, like Pope Francis. Francis and his soft words are the danger. Lost people will say, "See? I knew it all along! My good is good and your good is good, and we're all good." Francis denies the absolute authority of the One Good, which is what Jesus taught. (Mark 10:18). Daniel 11:12 shows us that the antichrist will use this technique of smooth words lulling the lost into a sense of spiritual fulfillment,
"By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action."
I do not think Pope Francis is the antichrist, though he may be a good candidate for the False Prophet. The point is not to identify a man but to show the danger of the technique. The False Prophet and the Antichrist will use the flattering and smooth words technique to evil perfection, and we see it employed here today.
It is incredible just within one year how this one man has changed the policies and dogma of the Catholic Church so drastically. Everything the RCC has stood for, for thousands of years, are undone by just a few tweets and media interviews. This is because they are not the words of Jesus. Jesus said the world will pass away but His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35). The ease with which Francis is changing the already corrupt RCC Gospel into ecumenical Christ-less Gospel is a pointed indicator that Christ was never in the Roman Catholic Church to begin with. The Lord's word is immovable. That Francis can change the perspective of the RCC and its adherents so easily is just another indicator of the nearness of Jesus's coming. The Pope's manipulation of the long-held false RCC doctrines to me is a good example of this verse:
"until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes." [emphasis mine] Ephesians 4:13-14
Pray for Francis to come to know the true God of Israel, the Ancient of Days who is on His throne, awaiting the moment He will tell His Son go go get His bride. Soon after that moment, it will be too late for those cloaked in the dark, smooth words of a false prophet named Pope Francis.
And here I am. The Pope comes in and shakes my hand, and we sit down. The Pope smiles and says: "Some of my colleagues who know you told me that you will try to convert me."
It's a joke, I tell him. My friends think it is you want to convert me.
He smiles again and replies: "Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us. Sometimes after a meeting I want to arrange another one because new ideas are born and I discover new needs. This is important: to get to know people, listen, expand the circle of ideas. The world is crisscrossed by roads that come closer together and move apart, but the important thing is that they lead towards the Good."
Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?
"Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good."
Your Holiness, you wrote that in your letter to me. The conscience is autonomous, you said, and everyone must obey his conscience. I think that's one of the most courageous steps taken by a Pope.
"And I repeat it here. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place."
Is the Church doing that?
"Yes, that is the purpose of our mission: to identify the material and immaterial needs of the people and try to meet them as we can. Do you know what agape is?"
Yes, I know.
"It is love of others, as our Lord preached. It is not proselytizing, it is love. Love for one's neighbor, that leavening that serves the common good."
Love your neighbor as yourself.
"Exactly so."
Jesus in his preaching said that agape, love for others, is the only way to love God. Correct me if I'm wrong.
"You're not wrong. The Son of God became incarnate in the souls of men to instill the feeling of brotherhood. All are brothers and all children of God. Abba, as he called the Father. I will show you the way, he said. Follow me and you will find the Father and you will all be his children and he will take delight in you. Agape, the love of each one of us for the other, from the closest to the furthest, is in fact the only way that Jesus has given us to find the way of salvation and of the Beatitudes."
More at link
-----------------------------
So much of this is wrong. The danger is that the Pope speaks for the 1.2 billion Catholics in the world, and he also speaks the world's language and they will adopt the Pope's version of Christianity because it is Christ-less. The Pope is fixated on the world, and not Jesus.
Where the Pope said, "The Son of God became incarnate in the souls of men to instill the feeling of brotherhood" this is, we know, NOT the reason Jesus came. He came to seek and save the lost. (Luke 19:10).
Jesus came not to deliver a 'feeling' but, "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:17)
Jesus came to live the perfectly sinless life so that He could shed His righteous blood on behalf of us sinners, die, and be raised by the power of God, conquering death. Jesus came to bring eternal life to sinners, not to allow us to enjoy brotherly feelings. We can do that on our own. What we cannot do on our own is escape God's judgment for our sins.
It was not men like Pope Benedict who was hellfire and brimstone who are most dangerous, but the flattering ones who speak the world's language, like Pope Francis. Francis and his soft words are the danger. Lost people will say, "See? I knew it all along! My good is good and your good is good, and we're all good." Francis denies the absolute authority of the One Good, which is what Jesus taught. (Mark 10:18). Daniel 11:12 shows us that the antichrist will use this technique of smooth words lulling the lost into a sense of spiritual fulfillment,
"By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action."
I do not think Pope Francis is the antichrist, though he may be a good candidate for the False Prophet. The point is not to identify a man but to show the danger of the technique. The False Prophet and the Antichrist will use the flattering and smooth words technique to evil perfection, and we see it employed here today.
It is incredible just within one year how this one man has changed the policies and dogma of the Catholic Church so drastically. Everything the RCC has stood for, for thousands of years, are undone by just a few tweets and media interviews. This is because they are not the words of Jesus. Jesus said the world will pass away but His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35). The ease with which Francis is changing the already corrupt RCC Gospel into ecumenical Christ-less Gospel is a pointed indicator that Christ was never in the Roman Catholic Church to begin with. The Lord's word is immovable. That Francis can change the perspective of the RCC and its adherents so easily is just another indicator of the nearness of Jesus's coming. The Pope's manipulation of the long-held false RCC doctrines to me is a good example of this verse:
"until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes." [emphasis mine] Ephesians 4:13-14
Pray for Francis to come to know the true God of Israel, the Ancient of Days who is on His throne, awaiting the moment He will tell His Son go go get His bride. Soon after that moment, it will be too late for those cloaked in the dark, smooth words of a false prophet named Pope Francis.
Comments
The Bible speaks of those who "do what is right in their own eyes"... and it's never in a flattering light. God's word utterly rejects the concept of moral relativity.
ReplyDelete-carolyn
The whole bit about how each person has their own idea of what is good and must follow their own idea of what good is sure does sound an awful lot like the times in the Bible in which it is stated, "and men did that which was right in their own eyes". That was never an indicator of righteousness in God's Word, rather, it was always a testament of man's rebellion and wickedness. This should tell us something right there.
ReplyDeleteThe False Prophet cannot come from the same empire as the Antichrist. The Antichrist rises out of the "sea" which means he is of gentile origins, while the False Prophet comes from the "land" which is euphemism for Israel. The Roman Catholic Church, though, will play a huge role in the mass deception as the Mystery Babylon that God hates more than anything.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous,
DeleteYou're referring to Rev 13:1, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy"
Pulpit Commentary explains the sea,
"The sea, again, is the type of instability, confusion, and commotion, frequently signifying the ungovernable nations of the earth in opposition to the Church of God (cf. Revelation 17:15; Revelation 21:1). "
The bible explains the sea: "But the wicked are like the tossing sea; for it cannot be quiet, and its waters toss up mire and dirt." (Isaiah 57:20)
the wicked are like sands of the sea (Rev 20:8)
The second Beast is the false prophet, rising out of the earth. (Rev 13:11) All the translations say 'the earth" -not the land. The Greek word for the earth here means physical earth, indicating the distinction between heavenly rule and earthly rule.
In both pictures, which are metaphoric, it shows satan standing on the earth, surveying the restless and wicked sea of people, and summoning powerful demons from below to do his bidding to subjugate them, which God will allow.
It's best not to be too dogmatic on the symbolism here, and instead rely on the picture they give us to understand the last days events which are to come.
It's not being dogmatic any more than your post about the pope being the False Prophet is dogmatic. I'm just presenting the possibility that the False Prophet could turn out to be Jewish since Revelation 13 talks about their origins and this works well in the Jewish/gentile interpretation. Also, Jesus said in John 5:43, "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive." The False Prophet being Jewish fits perfectly into Jesus' prediction that some Jews will fall prey to the Antichrist.
DeleteDogmatism: "expressing personal opinions or beliefs as if they are certainly correct and cannot be doubted"
DeleteWhat I said was "he may be a good candidate for the False Prophet". This is not dogmatism.
Your statement, "The False Prophet cannot come from the same empire as the Antichrist." Is dogmatic.
All Jews will fall prey to the Antichrist. All the lost will fall prey to the antichrist, for that matter. Anyone not in Christ will fall prey to the Antichrist.
Rev 3 presents the false prophet as the second beast who will come from the earth. The chapter goes on to describe what he will do, but nothing about his origins. No one knows if he will be Jewish. You can read about the false prophet here. They use scripture.
http://www.gotquestions.org/false-prophet.html
MacArthur on the False Prophet being a Jew
"Some have suggested the earth means that he is a Jew, but Jews aren't identified with the earth so much, they're identified with the land, that's a different word, ge, so there's no reason to assume that he will be a Jew at this particular point because he comes up out of the earth. Could be a Jew, but that's not conclusive, he could be a Gentile." more here http://www.gty.org/resources/print/sermons/66-47
As I said, it is best not to claim certainty from scripture where no certainty exists. We have to look at the scripture first and glean interpretation from the text rather thant have a pet theory where we stretch scripture to support it.
Dear Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteIt is really saddening for me to read this post. No wonder many of my Catholics classmates did not try to reach out to me when I was studying in a catholic mission school (for 10 years!). I had to attend mass etc. but nobody ever tell me about the importance of receiving Christ as my saviour. It was only later in a secular tertiary school I attended that I accepted Christ through the sharing by my christian classmates there. What an irony! But still, I thank God that those early childhood experiences in a catholic mission at least opened my eyes to the presence of a Holy God. :)
Sadly, the pope has global influence - and is not using it wisely.
ReplyDeleteUnknown said:
ReplyDeleteI am a Catholic, and not at all fond of where Pope Francis seems to be leading us. However, in response to the beast thing, I found this (probably evangelical) website with a fascinating position that might interest you. I think it may be right. The beast could be America! I find the hyperlinks interesting too. Although I disagree with some of the conclusions. I do want to add that Francis has been misunderstood on a number of occasions. But his position here is blatantly anti-Catholic/Christian. We are exhorted to spread the gospel and convert the world, not bottle it up and pretend every other path is the right one.
[Ed Note: this comment has been edited to delete the provided link]
Unknown, Thanks for your comment. I agree the pope's positions have been anti-Catholic. However Catholics are not Christian. By virtue of being Catholic, the pope is already anti-Christian.
DeleteThe beast is not a nation but a person. This individual does exploits, performs signs, causes all to worship the antichrist...etc. A nation doesn't do that but a person does. We can read about him here from scripture
Revelation 13:11-18:
So if I think worshipping Buddha is good, no worries. This Pope badly needs our prayers. T. W.
ReplyDeleteTW, Buddha is dad and in the ground. he cannot hear your prayers. If you are not one of the children of Jesus, God does not hear your prayers, either.
Delete"We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him." John 9:31