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2 Tim 3:1-5 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
Cato Institute wrote, fourteen years ago: "The growth of government has politicized life and weakened the nation’s moral fabric. Government intervention—in the economy, in the community, and in society—has increased the payoff from political action and reduced the scope of private action. People have become more dependent on the state and have sacrificed freedom for a false sense of security. The most obvious signs of moral decay in America are the prevalence of out-of-wedlock births, the breakup of families, the amorality of public education, and the eruption of criminal activity. But there are other signs as well: the decline in civility, the lack of integrity in both public and private life, and the growth of litigation as the chief way to settle disputes."
How much worse it is today?
Personal immorality:
Commuters travel to work naked
It was a cheeky and unexpected sight that greeted commuters as they boarded a Tube into work. But the four naked men and women certainly livened up the usually dull journey for many people – attracting gasps from stunned workers. Carrying handbags or briefcases to cover their modesty – and wearing shoes – the nudes travelled on escalators and rode in the carriages as though their lack of suitable attire was completely normal.
Venus Williams, Tennis star by day, dominatrix by night?
Religious immorality:
“For the Sake of God” — Must We Surrender Sexual Morality?
The ordination of Mary Glasspool as a bishop of the Episcopal Church on Sunday drives yet another wedge into the already fracturing Anglican Communion — and raises some of the most fundamental questions about the Church and sexual morality.
Fiscal immorality:
Bringing morality to Wall Street
Dostoevsky wrote The Brothers Karamazov and in the early chapters, Ivan Karamazov encapsulates his belief that "If God does not exist, everything is permitted." How true this is. Atheism is prophesied to rise in the last days: and apostasy prevails: "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction..." and "However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8b) .In in these contexts apostasy means 'defection from truth.' As we hurtle headlong to the end of the Church Age, more people defect from the truth, and it is true- everything is permitted.
Cato Institute wrote, fourteen years ago: "The growth of government has politicized life and weakened the nation’s moral fabric. Government intervention—in the economy, in the community, and in society—has increased the payoff from political action and reduced the scope of private action. People have become more dependent on the state and have sacrificed freedom for a false sense of security. The most obvious signs of moral decay in America are the prevalence of out-of-wedlock births, the breakup of families, the amorality of public education, and the eruption of criminal activity. But there are other signs as well: the decline in civility, the lack of integrity in both public and private life, and the growth of litigation as the chief way to settle disputes."
How much worse it is today?
Personal immorality:
Commuters travel to work naked
It was a cheeky and unexpected sight that greeted commuters as they boarded a Tube into work. But the four naked men and women certainly livened up the usually dull journey for many people – attracting gasps from stunned workers. Carrying handbags or briefcases to cover their modesty – and wearing shoes – the nudes travelled on escalators and rode in the carriages as though their lack of suitable attire was completely normal.
Venus Williams, Tennis star by day, dominatrix by night?
Religious immorality:
“For the Sake of God” — Must We Surrender Sexual Morality?
The ordination of Mary Glasspool as a bishop of the Episcopal Church on Sunday drives yet another wedge into the already fracturing Anglican Communion — and raises some of the most fundamental questions about the Church and sexual morality.
Fiscal immorality:
Bringing morality to Wall Street
Groups push not only for stronger regulation of Wall Street banks, but a greater emphasis on ethical business practices.
Above, Michael Douglas as Wall Street Financier Gordon Gecko, who has become a symbol in popular culture for unrestrained greed, with the signature line, "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good."
Government immorality:
"Crisis of morality"
LET US be quite realistic about the matter: If we are expecting leadership of high moral integrity, we are going to have to do without government in Jamaica for the foreseeable future. The Constitution is far more realistic than the many voices calling for the resignation of the prime minister over his poor handling of the Manatt, Phelps & Phillips affair, another in the string of scandals plaguing administrations in Jamaica. No criminal offence has been identified in the matter. Just "moral failure". ... The answer to the moral crisis in political leadership is clear. Whether it is possible is another matter. We cannot hope to pick the right leadership from the current wrong sets, or to advance by alternating them.
And this just in from the Duh Department:
"Most Americans Say Moral Values In Decline"
Three-quarters of Americans say the country's moral values are worsening, blaming a decline in ethical standards, poor parenting, and dishonesty by government and business leaders, Gallup reports.
Government immorality:
"Crisis of morality"
LET US be quite realistic about the matter: If we are expecting leadership of high moral integrity, we are going to have to do without government in Jamaica for the foreseeable future. The Constitution is far more realistic than the many voices calling for the resignation of the prime minister over his poor handling of the Manatt, Phelps & Phillips affair, another in the string of scandals plaguing administrations in Jamaica. No criminal offence has been identified in the matter. Just "moral failure". ... The answer to the moral crisis in political leadership is clear. Whether it is possible is another matter. We cannot hope to pick the right leadership from the current wrong sets, or to advance by alternating them.
And this just in from the Duh Department:
"Most Americans Say Moral Values In Decline"
Dostoevsky wrote The Brothers Karamazov and in the early chapters, Ivan Karamazov encapsulates his belief that "If God does not exist, everything is permitted." How true this is. Atheism is prophesied to rise in the last days: and apostasy prevails: "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction..." and "However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8b) .In in these contexts apostasy means 'defection from truth.' As we hurtle headlong to the end of the Church Age, more people defect from the truth, and it is true- everything is permitted.
Don't miss-read the 'signs' to suit your own agenda. Some of what you cite might be signs of moral decline, but I don't agree that all of it is.
ReplyDeleteI will start by quoting Pope John Paul II:
"The human body can remain nude and uncovered and preserve intact its splendour and its beauty... Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness... Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person...The human body is not in itself shameful... Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a function of the interior of a person."
So you have to examine the intent behind the nudity before you can really judge the morality of it. The naked office workers are not promoting promiscuity, they are promoting a programme aimed at getting us to know each other better and build better teams. So it is openness an honesty they are promoting - isn't that good for morality?
Although the office workers are not what we would define as naturists, they are promoting something that happens naturally within naturism; naturists accept one another for the person within the body, not for the shape of that body. I meet all shapes and sizes and all types of disability amongst naturists and they all agree that this is the effect that non-sexual nudity has on humans. All it takes is the ability to detach nudity from sex - a connection that has only been made by social conditioning - a fact clearly recognised by Pope John Paul II.
Hi Brian,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment. As to your caution about "my agenda", my 'agenda' is God's agenda. I would alternately caution you to return to the word of God rather than the word of a man, pope though he may be.
And your own agenda as one who is in the business of promoting nudity will likely cloud your vision of that Word. So what does the Word say? Here is a biblical answer from Gotquestions.org:
"There is nothing essentially sinful about nudity (Genesis 2:25). Adam and Eve did not realize they were naked until after the Fall (Genesis 3:7-11). Before the Fall, they were naked, and it was good (Genesis 1:31). Sin is what caused nakedness to become a problem. Sin introduced lust, immorality, and perversion into the human race. As a result, we can no longer look at a nude person of the opposite sex in a pure manner. God made clothing for Adam and Eve to resolve this problem (Genesis 3:21). If God approved of nakedness, He would have simply told them that being naked was okay, and they did not need to feel embarrassed or ashamed. The fact that God clothed Adam and Eve indicates that God expects us to be clothed. Nude beaches, nudist colonies, and all other forms of public nudity are not honoring to God. A Christian should definitely not be involved in nudist "activities." "
Based on God's actions in Genesis, I judge public nudity to be dishonoring to Him.
And Brian, even in heaven, where there is no sin, we are given robes to wear... (Rev 6:11, 7:9)
ReplyDeleteTo all that read this, Christian or not. I my life time (31 years) i have seen a code of English manners fall out the window like people running from rattle snake in your house. I still hold doors open for people etc... and people say "wow, a gentleman" as if I am special. I am not.
ReplyDeleteMen slander their wives behind there back and then have expectations from there wives. Double standards every where i look. I am tired of looking.
this time line is like scripture quotes it is "the days are evil, redeem the time" Ephesians 5:16.
If you are willing to accept this as true, the days are few before we see the end of civilization and common sense and morality as we know it.
Magazine covers are killing a mans love for there wives and Wives self worth to be appealing to a husband.
I never thought i would live to see the day when woman could wear what ever they liked at work. that time has arrived!
Ladies and Gentleman, Love the way Christ teaches, conduct yourself in such a way that we give glory to God alone.
I am a struggling man in the nudist era and hate each and every day that it catches me off my guard.
May the grace of God keep you all.
that soooo...........what to say now
ReplyDeleteWhy would God create a creature that should be ashamed of itself? Would you sculpt a statue with the intent of its appearance to be evil or immoral, only to cover it up when you finished? That doesn't even make sense. And if nakedness is "bad", why would God want to look at it? Did he really need some sort of visual confirmation of their innocence? Wouldn't he know their hearts?
ReplyDeleteExactly what makes the human body -- especially if it was created by God -- so terrible and shameful? We remark on the beauty of nature everywhere else, why shouldn't the human being be included in that? Why wouldn't God want us to love ourselves as we love everything else in nature? Shouldn't we be a testament to him? Did God create something whose appearance is something to be ashamed of? Why?
Anonymous, you asked a good question. Why WOULD God create a creature that should be ashamed of itself? The answer is, He *didn't*.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning, the earth was perfect, All the earth, creatures, and humans were perfect. Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed. Then, what happened in Genesis 3:7 that shows us this state of things?
"Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings."
What happened for them to be ashamed? SIN. Adam and Eve in the previous verse had disobeyed God and eaten the forbidden fruit. They sinned. Their disobedience led to the very first negative emotion ever recorded to be present on earth: shame. It devolved from there. Adam blamed Eve, then Eve blamed the serpent, so blame/defensiveness came next and probably marital fighting. (Gen 3:12-13). Then Cain killed Abel so it wasn't long before murder came on the scene.(Gen 4:8)
We do remark on the beauty of nature everywhere, but even nature is groaning under the curse (of sin) and is eagerly awaiting the release from sin (Romans 8:19-22). God cursed the ground and told Adam his toil will be hard and thorns and thistles will grow, and weeds. This tells us that before sin the ground yielded perfection without man having to toil or plow or plant. All man had to do is pluck it.
What God created was perfect. What man did is mess it up. However the glory of our God is that He will not leave it this way, all things will be restored. There will be a new heaven and a new earth (Rev 21:1; Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:10). And when that one comes, there will be no sin on earth nor in us to mess it up, ever again!
Hi. In response to what you have posted so far (I will not even attempt to convince you because i understand what it means to be taught to believe something all your life and the fact that the society at large seems to prove one's convictions), i will still like you to look at these sites:
ReplyDelete1.) http://mychainsaregone.org/MCAG-article-intro.htm
2.)www.pastordavidrn.com/files/RebuildingAGodlyView.pdf
3.)http://thebiblicalnaturist.com/articles/The_Objectification_of_Women_Part_1_less_images.pdf
Hello Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIt seems you have made a dangerous and erroneous assumption. I was not "taught something all my life" and am therefore blinded to the wider view. I accepted Christ at age 42, never having been to church.
It is the Holy Spirit that draws one and all to Himself, and it was that truth the Spirit was enveloping me in that I responded to. I pray that you respond to Him as well.
I respectfully decline to look at your links, because they are not Truth and therefore not of God and not worth the time as Philippians 4:8 states. " Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
i am so sorry for making any wrong assumptions and sorry if you feel that i offended you. However i did not come to this conclusion very lightly because it took almost 2 years of biblical study to see where i believe i was in error. For me it does not make a difference if one decides to be naked or if one decides to dress in a sexually provocative, what matters ultimately is that i choose to honor and respect the body and personhood of the individual because Jesus died for them and for the fact that nudity in itself is not a sin or a problem but rather, it is the sin that comes from our hearts that causes us to misuse God's temple for evil purposes. I thank the Lord that you gave your life to the Lord Jesus and may He continue to guide you to all truths, you do not have to believe what i said but i can testify to why i sincerely believe that nudity in and of itself is not a source of sin and temptation which unfortunately has been blighted with a false perceptive perpetuated by the media,hollywood, playboy, pornography. Remain blessed always.
ReplyDeleteI will also like to add that there was a time in my life that to avoid lust, i needed to be away from any form of nakedness that triggered lustful responses. I believed that if i see a naked person or half naked person i will have lustful impure thoughts about the person and so the only way was to pray and avoid it as much as i could. Today by the grace of God, i have come to the realization that it is INDEED VERY POSSIBLE TO SEE A NAKED PERSON OR OTHERWISE WITHOUT SO MUCH AS LUSTFUL THOUGHT!!! This is only possible by the power of the Holy Spirit and also by the renewing of the mind regarding the body that the Lord created. I realized that i always have a choice as a man to see a woman regardless of their disposition as a person that Jesus created, loves and died for so that they can be redeemed. I do not claim to know everything but i do know this; our bodies, both as men and women are a vessel of honour and must be treated as such and because it is a vessel of honour; we as Christians must utterly reject the satanic view of the body as presented and perpetuated by the porn industry, Hollywood and the media at large. God bless you always.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, you did not offend me. I am sorry to say that after two years of studying the bible you came to the conclusion that if a person dresses immodestly or even goes about naked that it is not a sin or a problem. It is.
ReplyDelete1 Tim 2:9-10 states "likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works."
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 states Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body." and this does not mean it is OK to go around naked. It means the opposite.
We are lustful people. It is ridiculous to think that we can dress immodestly or even nakedly and that we can NOT lust with our eyes or in our mind or in our heart. It began with Eve in the garden ("saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes,") and it continues to this day. Testing it is foolish. Be modest. God wants you to.
Greetings once again. Regarding my last response, i never mentioned that dressing immodestly is right, however regarding nudity it really depends on the context. I agree that as Christians we are to glorify the Lord with how we live and present ourselves which also includes dressing but in the end it is still very possible that a person can dress by our church's standard or modesty and yet their heart is very far away from God. We are also responsible for our actions, and just because for example a man may encounter a woman who may be dressing immodestly to attract lustful attention does not mean that the man should accept what he sees. Regardless of the fact that the woman is wrong in not glorifying God with her intentions, the man also has a choice to either lust or look beyond the illusion of sin and see the woman as a person who is ignorant and sinning. This is where the problem is; you mentioned that we are lustful people but you do realize that by the power of the Holy Spirit living in us and knowing the truth, it becomes a choice to either honour God and respecting the dignity of the woman despite her wrong choice or go ahead and lust after her as she expects, i choose the former. I stand by what i said earlier that by His grace we can choose to still respect people in our hearts and thoughts regardless of how they dress but it does not mean that one should approve of what they are doing, it is our job to pray and to show them the truth. Nudity like i said is not the obstacle, the true obstacle is the sin in our hearts that causes people to use their bodies to commit pervasive acts. God bless you.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment. Yes we both agree sin is the problem. That's why immodesty is wrong, it tempts us to sin. Yes sin is a choice, but we already have a predilection for it. So why tempt satan by skirting the edge of it? Dressing immodestly is wrong.
ReplyDeleteThank you for response. People dressing immodestly is wrong, we agree on this however it will be interesting to know that people actually have definitions to the word 'modesty'. There was a time that it was a problem for a man if a woman's ankle was not covered, can you believe that!!, yet it does seem to be an issue. In the islamic world, it is a problem for a man if a woman's face or her hair is uncovered because they believe that it will cause them lust after them hence these women are urged to cover them. Now if a woman dresses in such a way that is sexually provocative, it is evil because in her heart she already believes that men especially in the american society that is so obsessed about the female body will lust after her and perhaps give her the attention that she craves except that in the end such attention only leads to objectifying her. But is also very possible that even if a woman may dress 'very decently'in our eyes, does not mean that someone will not still choose to lust after her. That is why we both agree that sin always begin from the heart; that is why it will be amazing if God gave us the ability to see into people's hearts we may find that whether the person dresses modestly or not some people will find one reason to lust after the person. Regarding nudity, i know this is a very sensitive issue but one of the major reasons that i believe is a problem is because of the prevailing power of the pornographic industry that has effectively redefined how young men view a woman. It has created such an unhealthy perception about a woman that in the end people no longer see women as human beings but rather as sex objects. Let me give you an illustration; you are woman so i hope you can see where i am going with this. One of the attributes that men always objectify women with are the size of her breast. Women's breast has been so distorted and given a wrong connotation of being a sex organ that can cause men to sin if they either not covered or are provocatively showcased and this we find so often through many hollywood movies, porn films,men going to visit strip clubs for the purpose of seeing women debase themselves and you can name many more.
ReplyDelete(This is a continuation from the last post).Young people in america are exposed to these misuse of the body with young women augmenting the size of their breast because they believe that it makes them look 'sexy' (i sincerely hate that term) and because many men demand it. Yet this same breast that the society and dare i say even the church believes that it can cause people to lust is simply a maternal part of woman which is used to breastfeed her baby (i believe this loving and tender relationship between a mother and her child mirrors the relationship of Jesus Christ to the Church). You see many grew up learning from these media outlets which i must say has done an effective job of ignorantly brainwashing the public by feeding us the wrong view of the body, using photo-shopped, airbrushed celebrities on magazines, fashion industries also have played its own part in no small measure to the creation of an image of a woman that is not real. We can see before our very eyes how pornography has invaded into the lives of families teaching young men (i am using men here but women are also affected) how to see, relate and judge a woman based on her looks, size of her breasts, hips and buttocks which have been so distorted (many of the women in the industry augment their body parts because they know that it brings great attention) that people believe that it is not possible at all to see a woman and not lust after her. I believe that nudity in its simple and innocent form is not evil neither is it a stumbling block because God created us in His image and what happened in the garden of Eden did not change what God has made about the body, however what changed was man's relationship with the Lord through our disobedience. Yes God made garments to cover Adam and Eve when He sent them out of Eden but i believe this had noting to do with their nakedness all of sudden now being a problem but rather it is because despite the shame that sin brought on them, God was still merciful and because outside of Eden, there will be hardships and adverse conditions that will require protection. For a very long time i used to believe that nakedness or nudity was evil all together through my family upbringing, Church and society.
ReplyDelete(This is also a continuation from the last post). seen enough to believe at the time that if i so much as gaze at a woman, either by looking at her breast or staring at her other parts that i was already committing sin. It was an issue for until through a pastor, i began to question my long held beliefs that i thought was true. This became a reality through my first figure drawing class (i am a fine artist and up till that moment i would never had agreed to it), but when i started it, for the first time that i actually saw a naked woman, it was also the very first time that i saw the woman for who God made her to be, a blessed temple of God who was created to support and nurture a new life). During the time i was drawing her, I began to see the real beauty of her being, not the satanic, pornographic, lustful poses that women tend to portray, not the so called super fit, slim shaped models that men in secret are craving for; i simply saw her as a real human being!!! it was a profound experience but in addition to this i came to understand that as an artist,if i can understand the human anatomy, then i can draw anything; such is the power, beauty and complexity of the human form. This is why i believe that many have been trained socially to believe that if he sees a woman, then automatically he will lust after sexually in his heart, but i saw this response is not automatic but rather it is a choice that is why i kept saying that the real enemy is the sin in our hearts and the wrong perception of the body. It is sin in our hearts and ignorance of the body that has made people to abuse their bodies and use their bodies for the purpose of misleading men and women and that is why this is a very serious problem today. Anyone who uses their body or through clothing selfishly draws attention to themselves are sinning against God but again, the viewer is also responsible for his or her actions as much as the person that is being viewed.
ReplyDelete(This is the final part of the post). The truth is that man will always find a woman beautiful because the Lord made it that way, the critical point will be if that attraction will lead to either praising the Lord for how fearfully and wonderfully made the woman is which leads to respecting and honouring the person (it does mean that we approve of if the person dresses indecently) and in turn honouring God or if we then choose to lust and objectify her and by doing this dishonouring the Lord. This is where the power of the Holy Spirit is absolutely important but also importantly that we come to understand the truth about the human body, because only the truth in this matter can set many people free from the lies, illusions and misconceptions about the body that has been greatly distorted today. I apologize for this very long post but i felt it was important for me to state it. Please i am writing this in an attempt to try and change your mind, i am not capable of it, but believe me when i say that it took a long long time to realize the lies that i was ignorantly living by, and that is why it has been a telling journey for me and by the grace of God i see us as human beings in a new light. God bless you. Shalom.
ReplyDeleteHello Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI think I don't understand the part about the lies you labored under regarding nudity and only recently have come to understand that they were lies int he first place. Can you tell me what the lies were in a couple of sentences?
Greetings and thank you for replying. Please let me apologize for this very long series of posts i have been putting. You wanted to know what these lies where? Well the best i can put it in for is through this web link (i plead with as a Christian to have a look at the site)
ReplyDeletehttp://mychainsaregone.org/MCAG-article-lies-intro.htm
This page contains the statements with each statement having its own page that fully explains them. In last post i meant to say that "i was not writing this in an attempt to change your mind, i am incapable of that". This was the site where i began my journey of freedom and healing from and it has become a testimony to the glory of God. Stay blessed always. Shalom.
Anonymous, I'm sorry, I refute and reject your premises. I went to your site and it is as I suspected: you are trying to convince yourself of something the bible proposes as the opposite. Therefore your stance is from satan, not from God.
ReplyDeleteMorality is important. Earlier, you cited the Muslim stricture of women covering. One does not make a case by comparing the world. nor to cite other religions's activities. All of the stances you propose, which you say are "lies" on your page, are dealt with in an essay here
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-nudist.html
It states:
"Many pagan cultures throughout history considered public nudity normative, especially Spartan, Greek, and Roman societies. In more recent years, pubic nudity has become more and more acceptable, with many groups promoting a “back-to-nature” philosophy and the supposed health benefits of taking off one’s clothes. Nudists, or naturists, form clubs, frequent clothing-free beaches, and engage in activities ranging from hiking to horseback riding au naturel."
"Although the world’s standards may permit or even encourage nudity, the Bible has a different perspective. It is true that the first humans were created unclothed by God (Genesis 2:25). Adam and Eve were innocent in their nakedness, but after the fall everything changed. When they sinned, “the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked” (Genesis 3:7). Never before had they realized they were unclothed—the concepts of “clothed” and “unclothed” were meaningless to them. Sin affected their hearts and minds, creating vulnerability, guilt, and shame, and these things produced fear (verse 10). In their attempt to cover their spiritual shame, Adam and Eve intuitively covered their bodies. We should note that, when God took away their fig leaves—a sadly inadequate covering—He replaced them with something more permanent—animal skins (verse 21). Thus, God regarded clothing as appropriate and necessary in a fallen world."
"Nudity now has implications of sinfulness attached to it. With few exceptions, the Bible presents nakedness as shameful and degrading (Genesis 9:21; Exodus 20:26; 32:25; 2 Chronicles 28:19; Isaiah 47:3; Ezekiel 16:35-36; Luke 8:27; Revelation 3:17; 16:15; 17:16). The only passages in which nudity is free of shame are those that describe Eden’s idyllic setting or that deal with marital relations (Proverbs 5:18-19; Song of Solomon 4)."
"We still live in a fallen world, surrounded by lust, immorality, and perversion. The innocence of Eden is gone. Naturist philosophy ignores the results of the fall. Even in “asexual” contexts, public displays of nudity dishonor God by pretending an innocence which no longer exists. A Christian should definitely not be a nudist or participate in nudist activities."
As for nudity in art as you mentioned in the drawing class, that is dealt with biblically, here
http://www.gotquestions.org/nudity-in-art.html
The two basic positions are
1) The naked human body is not inherently sinful.
2) The Bible portrays public nudity as disgraceful.
and in part it states,
"Christians have been called to modesty (1 Timothy 2:9). In this matter, we wish to strike a balance between legalism and licentiousness. We don’t want an “anything goes” attitude, but neither do we want to wrap women in burqas. The basic guideline is for Christian women to dress “modestly, with decency and propriety.” Of course, this instruction is for living people and not for art, but perhaps there is a connection, if indeed art imitates life. Why would a Christian artist paint a model—who is to dress modestly—in an immodest way? Why should Christian art be held to a lower standard than the Christian himself?"
Nudity in public is wrong and we should be modest. Our sin nature CANNOT handle anything less than what the bible tells us concerning the body and its use.
Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteI entered into a personal email dialog with the author of the "GotQuestions.org" site over the article you reference about a Christian being a nudist.
I wrote to him because, as a student of the Scriptures myself, I found that his Biblical case against nakedness was not as clear cut as he claimed it was. I asked him if he could make it more solid.
In the course of that dialog, he made this statement to me (this is a direct quote):
“I cannot produce an explicit biblically solid case against nakedness.”
As you might imagine, I was pretty shocked!
For my part, I am unwilling to declare something to be absolutely wrong if I cannot produce an explicitly biblical case against it.
Are you still willing to consider his words authoritative on this topic? Can you make a more solid case than he did?
Matt
Hi Matt,
ReplyDeleteI commend your interest and vigor in following up. Good for you.
I look at biblical precepts narrowly. When there is a preponderance of evidence that consistently show that the Lord would be displeased with a certain behavior, I tend to err on the narrow side, not wanting to displease Him
You look at precepts broadly. As you said, you're "unwilling to declare something to be absolutely wrong if I cannot produce an explicitly biblical case against it." But Paul said "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive." (1 Cor 10:23)
I use the preponderance of evidence method for behaviors not explicitly banned. For example,
Slavery is not outlawed in the bible. Nothing explicitly condemns owning a slave.Using your own benchmark, you are unwilling to declare slavery wrong, because the bible does not condemn it.
John MacArthur made an excellent point: "Sin so often seeks to do two things—express itself and excuse itself." I choose not to give my sins expression nor excuse them by saying anything remotely like "well, the bible doesn't explicitly condemn it...".
GotQuestions made an excellent case, using scriptures, that show public nudity is not to be sought or engaged in, and that our bodies are for our spouses only. I consider the bible to be the authority and the GotQuestions essay used enough bible verses, and correctly, that it illuminated the issue to any discerning, and WILLING, hearer.
No, it seems that you are looking for ways to liberally apply doctrines so that you may sin or at least convince yourself that certain sins are OK. I look for ways to narrowly apply doctrine so that I may please the Lord.
Elizabeth, I am with you all the way, of course!
ReplyDeleteGod clothed Adam and Eve and that is a solid case for clothing!
I will not be responding back to any argument because there is no need, this topic is cut and dry. It's sad that this is even being challenged.
It seems like the challengers here are wanting to do things their way, not God's way.
Stay true! Thanks. :)
Thanks Anonymous. Good thought there about Adam and Eve! And also remember when Noah was drunk and naked in his tent and his son saw him, it was a cause for great shame. The other two brothers walked in backward and covered Noah up. And that shame was within one family inside a tent, not even in public among strangers. (Genesis 9)
ReplyDelete(I Cor. 8:9)
ReplyDelete"But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak." (1 Cor. 8:9)
Most people are weak. (Some more so than others)
As a woman I would not knowingly place a stumbling block in front of my brother to cause him to fall any more than I would serve a diabetic chocolate cake!
By the way, chocolate cake is not evil, but for someone lacking the ability to properly consume it~ it can be deadly!