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There is a difficult prophetic passage in Revelation, some say the most difficult. Revelation 17:9-11 says-
"Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition." (Revelation 17:9-11)
Oh, boy, where do you start? OK, in the first phrase, it says 'here is wisdom.' To me, that means that the interpretation won't be easy or obvious. It will take deeper study, but that it will be revealed to the one who seeks wisdom. James 1:5 makes that promise.
Next, "Mountains". In biblical symbolism, mountains represent kingdoms or strong, powerful governments. When it says THE mountain, like in Isaiah 2:2-4, it means Jesus' government. "It shall come to pass in the last days that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains."
"The seven" past kingdoms (empires) are generally accepted to be Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Greece, Media-Persia and Rome past and/or Rome to come, or perhaps someone else. "The eighth" seems to be the antichrist which is part of the seventh.
Remember that in Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's statue of the kingdoms (Dan 2:31-35), it was gold at the head, silver at the chest and arms, bronze torso and thighs, legs of iron and feet of a mixture of clay and iron. A side note, you notice two things of the statue's metals: as they progress from head to toe, the metals become less expensive. Gold is the most precious metal, iron the least. Clay is worth nothing at all. But they also become stronger. Gold is the softest metal but iron is strongest.
The legs of iron are generally thought to be the split Roman empire. The Romans split their empire in 330AD when they allowed Constantinople to become a sister capital, and the kingdom was split east and west. (The feet of iron and clay are thought to the coming Tribulation kingdom.) So let's look at Constantinople.
Now known as Istanbul, it is located in Turkey and is its largest city. Wikipedia says Istanbul has served as the capital of the Roman Empire (330–395), the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire (395–1204 and 1261–1453), the Latin Empire (1204–1261), and the Ottoman Empire (1453–1922). That's a lot of empires! It was also chosen as a joint European Capital of Culture for 2010-2011, and as such organized cultural events with a strong European dimension. Yet...Istanbul is not European, and despite its long desire to align with the west, that desire has been thwarted.
Though Turkey was one of the first countries to become a member of the Council of Europe in 1949, a predecessor to the EU, and is now an associate member of the EU, it has been denied full membership ever since its application in 1987. It seems that the two legs of the Roman empire are still split, though it is part of the body of historically precedent empires and loosely connected to the west, is not the west.
The Turks figure into end time prophecy as the nation who aligns finally with the east. They come together with Armenia, Russia, Iran, and northern Africa and others to attack Israel. Their final status as an Israel-hater is certain. The journey from been a tumultuous one ever since Paul's missionary days into Asia Minor, which Turkey is still known as (also Anatolia). The question is, how does Turkey get from here to there?
Ezekiel 38:6 says that Gomer and the house of beth-Togarmah join the Gog-Magog attack. I interpret Gomer to be Turkey and beth-Togarmah as Armenia. You can research the historical/biblical names here, and here, and directly from the bible here and here. Turkey reverts to her roots in the last days, no matter the Western overlay this generation has come to see Turkey outwardly present.
Now to the original verse in Revelation. The verse says that there were/are 7 kingdoms. Some say the 7th both are Rome, and some say that the 7th could be the Ottoman Empire. Note the last part of the Revelation verse, 'the beast is the eighth AND is of the seven' could be satisfied by a ruler from the eastern leg of the statue that was part of Roman empire but not Rome.
The Ottomans existed as an empire for 500 years, disappearing in 1922 with the cessation of the office of Caliph (Ruler of all Muslims). Jack Kelley explores the notion of the Ottomans as 7th Revelation Kingdom, here. He said in part, "There are already some who believe the 7th Kingdom of Rev. 17:10 is the Ottoman Empire, and point out that Constantinople is also a city on seven hills. If so, its loyalty to Islam would confirm the identity of the one world End Times religion, and could also support the idea of an Islamic anti-Christ, the one some call al-Mahdi. As details of Islamic eschatology become more widely known, prophecy students are discovering a striking similarity between descriptions of al Mahdi and the anti-Christ."
John MacArthur said in his sermon "The Grim Reality of the Last Days", "Now somebody might say, “Well, when you think about the future and what’s going to happen in the world, don’t we have a revived Roman Empire? Doesn’t that mean the west? You remember that the image in Daniel 2 of the final world empire had two legs and the Roman Empire had the west and the east? You know, of course, if you know history that the western part of the Roman Empire basically dissolved and the east survived for a thousand years or more so that at the time of the New Testament, sixty percent of the Roman Empire was land that is now under Muslim control...at least 60 percent. The vast majority of the Roman Empire in New Testament times is today under Muslim control and Islam is moving across the west rapidly in Europe, isn’t it? When you have a picture in Ezekiel 38, you have a picture of the Antichrist, Gog and you have the listing of eight nations, that will be a coalition for the Antichrist. All eight of those are Muslim nations, all eight of them. And they ring the Mediterranean to Libya. In Revelation 17:9 to 11 it says there were six kingdoms and then a seventh and finally an eighth. What is the seventh? Well there’s been a discussion about that, it well could be the Ottoman Turk Empire which lasted five hundred years and didn’t really fall until the modern era. The Turkish Empire was the last Caliphate which ended in 1923 and they’re waiting for the restoration when the Mahdi comes."
What I'm saying is, the bible shows us that Turkey is a powerful and influential nation in the Gog-Magog battle. We saw Turkey's influence come to the fore last year in the Gaza Flotilla attack, and we see it now in her continuing spokesmanship for Muslims in Asia Minor.
This article from a Turkish daily newspaper titled "Turkey is shaping the Arab Spring" states flatly, "the Ottomans are back".
That the Ottomans could be the 7th kingdom mentioned in the Revelation verse is worth pondering, as we watch Turkey's pre-eminence in the Middle East rise again.
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"Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition." (Revelation 17:9-11)
Oh, boy, where do you start? OK, in the first phrase, it says 'here is wisdom.' To me, that means that the interpretation won't be easy or obvious. It will take deeper study, but that it will be revealed to the one who seeks wisdom. James 1:5 makes that promise.
Next, "Mountains". In biblical symbolism, mountains represent kingdoms or strong, powerful governments. When it says THE mountain, like in Isaiah 2:2-4, it means Jesus' government. "It shall come to pass in the last days that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains."
"The seven" past kingdoms (empires) are generally accepted to be Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Greece, Media-Persia and Rome past and/or Rome to come, or perhaps someone else. "The eighth" seems to be the antichrist which is part of the seventh.
The legs of iron are generally thought to be the split Roman empire. The Romans split their empire in 330AD when they allowed Constantinople to become a sister capital, and the kingdom was split east and west. (The feet of iron and clay are thought to the coming Tribulation kingdom.) So let's look at Constantinople.
Now known as Istanbul, it is located in Turkey and is its largest city. Wikipedia says Istanbul has served as the capital of the Roman Empire (330–395), the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire (395–1204 and 1261–1453), the Latin Empire (1204–1261), and the Ottoman Empire (1453–1922). That's a lot of empires! It was also chosen as a joint European Capital of Culture for 2010-2011, and as such organized cultural events with a strong European dimension. Yet...Istanbul is not European, and despite its long desire to align with the west, that desire has been thwarted.
Though Turkey was one of the first countries to become a member of the Council of Europe in 1949, a predecessor to the EU, and is now an associate member of the EU, it has been denied full membership ever since its application in 1987. It seems that the two legs of the Roman empire are still split, though it is part of the body of historically precedent empires and loosely connected to the west, is not the west.
The Turks figure into end time prophecy as the nation who aligns finally with the east. They come together with Armenia, Russia, Iran, and northern Africa and others to attack Israel. Their final status as an Israel-hater is certain. The journey from been a tumultuous one ever since Paul's missionary days into Asia Minor, which Turkey is still known as (also Anatolia). The question is, how does Turkey get from here to there?
Ezekiel 38:6 says that Gomer and the house of beth-Togarmah join the Gog-Magog attack. I interpret Gomer to be Turkey and beth-Togarmah as Armenia. You can research the historical/biblical names here, and here, and directly from the bible here and here. Turkey reverts to her roots in the last days, no matter the Western overlay this generation has come to see Turkey outwardly present.
Now to the original verse in Revelation. The verse says that there were/are 7 kingdoms. Some say the 7th both are Rome, and some say that the 7th could be the Ottoman Empire. Note the last part of the Revelation verse, 'the beast is the eighth AND is of the seven' could be satisfied by a ruler from the eastern leg of the statue that was part of Roman empire but not Rome.
The Ottomans existed as an empire for 500 years, disappearing in 1922 with the cessation of the office of Caliph (Ruler of all Muslims). Jack Kelley explores the notion of the Ottomans as 7th Revelation Kingdom, here. He said in part, "There are already some who believe the 7th Kingdom of Rev. 17:10 is the Ottoman Empire, and point out that Constantinople is also a city on seven hills. If so, its loyalty to Islam would confirm the identity of the one world End Times religion, and could also support the idea of an Islamic anti-Christ, the one some call al-Mahdi. As details of Islamic eschatology become more widely known, prophecy students are discovering a striking similarity between descriptions of al Mahdi and the anti-Christ."
John MacArthur said in his sermon "The Grim Reality of the Last Days", "Now somebody might say, “Well, when you think about the future and what’s going to happen in the world, don’t we have a revived Roman Empire? Doesn’t that mean the west? You remember that the image in Daniel 2 of the final world empire had two legs and the Roman Empire had the west and the east? You know, of course, if you know history that the western part of the Roman Empire basically dissolved and the east survived for a thousand years or more so that at the time of the New Testament, sixty percent of the Roman Empire was land that is now under Muslim control...at least 60 percent. The vast majority of the Roman Empire in New Testament times is today under Muslim control and Islam is moving across the west rapidly in Europe, isn’t it? When you have a picture in Ezekiel 38, you have a picture of the Antichrist, Gog and you have the listing of eight nations, that will be a coalition for the Antichrist. All eight of those are Muslim nations, all eight of them. And they ring the Mediterranean to Libya. In Revelation 17:9 to 11 it says there were six kingdoms and then a seventh and finally an eighth. What is the seventh? Well there’s been a discussion about that, it well could be the Ottoman Turk Empire which lasted five hundred years and didn’t really fall until the modern era. The Turkish Empire was the last Caliphate which ended in 1923 and they’re waiting for the restoration when the Mahdi comes."
What I'm saying is, the bible shows us that Turkey is a powerful and influential nation in the Gog-Magog battle. We saw Turkey's influence come to the fore last year in the Gaza Flotilla attack, and we see it now in her continuing spokesmanship for Muslims in Asia Minor.
This article from a Turkish daily newspaper titled "Turkey is shaping the Arab Spring" states flatly, "the Ottomans are back".
That the Ottomans could be the 7th kingdom mentioned in the Revelation verse is worth pondering, as we watch Turkey's pre-eminence in the Middle East rise again.
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Wow
ReplyDeleteWow Wow Wow
thanks for posting.
I must add, that reading your blog everyday is making feel like I Jesus will come before I finish all the things on my to-do list! LOL
LOL, that cracks me up Anonymous! Though it is true that He could come back in the next minute or the next month or by the end of the year. I really feel it is that close. But even if it isn't I feel that I want to be having a mindset of immediate imminence anyway.
ReplyDeleteMedo-Persia is one Empire. That makes the Ottoman the 7th according to Revelations, the kingdom that was, NOW IS NOT (0_0) and is yet to come.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, if the Arabs/Muslims/Ottomans are the clay, and the Iron represents the overtaken Roman Empire, it makes perfect sense to make note of the correlation between Islam gaining control -separately- of what used to be the Western and Eastern parts of the Roman Empire.
What's even crazier to me is that the feet are not merely clay, but iron mixed with clay. So the Ottomans are not destroying the Roman Empire--they are taking it over by means of political subterfuge. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING IN EUROPE TODAY. It seems too perfect. So those who predict a 'revived roman empire' might find their prediction come true--the roman empire will be revived, but it won't be controlled by romans. The Muslims are taking over Europe, whereafter THEY will revive a European empire of muslims, join it with the Eastern empire of muslims, and then Israel will be surrounded by enemies.
What's curious is whether or not America is included in the West by heritage, and will also be overtaken by the muslim horde and join against Israel OR if America will be destroyed by the Islamic Caliphate in order to leave nobody else to come to Israel's defense.
And that's when the first coalition attack against Israel will happen, and be interrupted by God Himself.
Makes too much sense. It's frightening. Thanks for presenting the statue clearly. It's hard to keep track of this sometimes. :P
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Look at the migrants (mostly muslim) flooding into Europe now. Imagine that Germany (where the Pergamon Altar now sits) is setting the tone and welcoming them with open arms. Only newly expanding countries ever welcome mass immigration. Settled and established countries generally view immigration with suspicion and sometimes outright hostility. The apparent eagerness with which the EU is now embracing this mass immigration is astounding. Talk to Caribbean, African, Eastern European immigrants from previous years I am sure they will agree.
DeleteCheck out the book "The Islamic Anti-Christ" by Joel Richardson, hard copy or on Kindle. His blog is at www.joelstrumpet.com.
ReplyDeleteDont forget Erdogon of Turkey said they where going to bring back the Ottomon Empire. The bible talks about the Anti christ rising from the Old Turkey sorry dont remember the exact name for it. Even Pat Robertson said the Anti Christ would come from Turkey. To watch this Leader they have now. Is this why Guillotines where delivered to the United States atleast 300 of them. They have talked about implementing a law to use them instead so they can use the body parts and make money off of us.Scary stuff. Look it up. There is a whole lot more going on with this Obama Administration. RFID chips by 2018. They advised they will be ready for implant 2017. Are you ready for the New World Order.
ReplyDeleteI actually agree that the Ottoman empire qualifies as the 7th but something puzzles me. There have been many empires throughout history, but to qualify as the beast, the empire must rule Israel and conquer the previous beast kingdom. Hence when Christ destroys it, the whole lot falls as described in Daniel. This is how it worked with all of the empires we know about, and held true for the Ottomans as well. They defeated the previous and they ruled Israel.
ReplyDeleteWe know that Rome was the sixth because 5 had already fallen when John wrote the prophecy. We also know that the Ottomans conquered the eastern half of Rome, the Byzantine empire, and did indeed rule Israel, and so yes they would seem to be the 7th beast kingdom.
However, everyone seems to overlook the fact that the Ottomans were themselves conquered in WW1. The allies defeated the Ottoman empire. Great Britain did then take Israel and they ruled it. So what puzzles me, is why can anyone possibly overlook the British in this prophecy?
By my calculations that makes Great Britain the 8th. It was the first truly global empire, and you could argue that it defeated the much changed and faded halves of the Roman empire in WW1 and 2 in defeating the Ottomans and the Germans (Holy Roman Empire). Whether it defeated Rome or not is just me speculating, but it did defeat the Ottomans as history attests.
It was itself a part of the Roman empire and did indeed comprise at its height all of the other seven kingdoms and more. The fact that it was a part of the Roman empire could qualify it as "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth" The bible calls this last kingdom, the little horn that comes up bragging and speaking great things. That sounds pretty British to me. It also says he will remain a short space and the British empire is the shortest lived in time of all. Further to this it is an Island, so could also qualify as a beast from the sea.
What Britain never defeated was ISLAM.
The Byzantines were Christian, but the Ottomans brought ISLAM to Turkey. The bible speaks of a beast from the sea and a beast from the EARTH. The beast from the earth is generally regarded as a religious beast and the beast from the sea is political.
Could it be that the old halves of the Roman Empire will unite again, the Ottomans bringing ISLAM and the British ruling politically, or who knows even her colony America could perhaps qualify for this. Personally, I think if ISLAM qualifies for anything it is as the beast of the earth, and it was the Ottomans who converted the old Roman empire to that faith.
If Christ came back and defeated a ruling Ottoman empire which comprised all 7 previous, wouldn't that leave the British empire out?
britian was a roman outpost therefore the british empire came from rome making it the 7th. the beast the 8th with the 10 nations posibly the EU would be the 10 horns. the beast is a man not a empire, in revelation it says himself is the 8th. or you could go the turkey route and saying ottoman is the 7th but is revelation all on earth will follow him, most people that arent muslims hate muslims and would not follow them therefore it makes more sense he is a white angelo which is what hollywood has been promoting
DeleteThe Sykes–Picot Agreement originally proposed Palestine as an international zone should the Ottomans be defeated. Eventually the British were granted a mandate from the League of Nations (a mandate granted temporary administration rights of the territory until such time as such territory was able to administer itself) and that because the British had already signed the Balfour declaration promising the creation of a Jewish National home in Palestine. One might therefore argue that Palestine was never ruled by Britain in the same way as America or India was ruled. Of course one could also argue that that's a very thin argument to discount Britain from being the eighth beast - you might be right. On the other hand, Britain was never granted control of Iraq which to my mind are key parts of the eighth beast. As is Greece/Macedonia. The final beast must have elements of the lion the bear and the leopard to count as the eighth (see Daniel 7)
DeleteYes I am on board with ottoman being the 7th becaus it wont make sense if the Roman empire is the 6th 7th and 8th. A Roman empire that did not fully conquer Babylon NOR did the Roman empire conquer the Medo/persians. HOWEVER THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE CONQUER ALL AND LEFT A STAMP EVEN LEFT A ISLAMIC BLANKET ON THE BIBLICAL ARENA WHICH IS THE MIDDLEAST. CLEARLY THIS IS SHAPING UP TO BE A JOB FOR THE GOD OF THE SLAVES TO TAKE CARE OF.O YEAH!!!!!!!! FOR THE GOD OF ISRAEL IS THE GOD OF THE SLAVES. BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI feel that things will get A WHOLE LOT WORST. Remember Christ said the last empire time will be cut short if not then no flesh will be saved, so what we going through now is nothing in comparrison. Moses spoke to children of Israel in Duetoromony about the blessings and curses. Because the children Israel disobeyed they went right back into slavery. They rejected God even his Son ok off they went into the hands of their enemies. The world rejects Christ ok into the hands of their enemies ISLAM and yes the OTTOMAN EMPIRE, THEIR PRACTICES, ONE OF THEIR PRACTICES WAS TO PUT A MARK ON THOSE WHO CONVERT TO ISLAM.
ReplyDeleteThe Islamic Antichrist book by Joel Richardson. Its almost shocking of the hint who or what religion will be pushed or enforce during the new order. There are more than a couple of positive and negatives. Based on what the quran and THE WHAT THE BIBLES SAIDS. The bible bad guys are the figures of the good guys in the quran. Amazing, this is a great truth that us followers of CHRIST and citizens of heaven would need to avoid being decieved, also its great preaching material that can be used to help our people (MANKIND).
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous,
DeleteThe bible is the only truth. We only teach or say things based on that. The Koran has nothing to offer us. But you're right, the Muslim eschatology is like a photographic negative of our last days doctrines. That's because darkness wrote the Koran (satan) and Light wrote the bible (Holy Spirit).
I wrote about the Muslim last days doctrines here if you care to take a look,
http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2011/03/what-do-muslims-believe-about-end-of.html
I am in full agreement with you. Whats also interesting is where Islam and Catholicism and all these false religions came from. They are Babylonian connected and have extended to our day, coming from the time of Nimrod. The era of the tower of babel, Nimrod days when Christ confused the languages. The peoples was scattered, and these false religions are the peoples understanding of what they was taught by Nimrod.
ReplyDeleteWhy did you say Armenia will ally with Turkey? Turkey is Muslim, Armenia is Christian. Turkey executed over 1.5 million Armenians around the time of WW1. The coalition of countries,Turkey will assemble against Israel, will be all Muslims.
ReplyDeleteI said it because the bible says it. Gomer and Beth Togarmah. Ezekiel 38.
DeleteRemember, any religious convictions they have will either change, or be set aside in order to fulfill the region's main objective: wipe Israel from the map. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".
It doesn't matter what you see on the ground now for conditions, if the bible says that they will combine, they will combine. In any case, by the time Revelation 19 comes, every army in the world will be allied against one common enemy: Jesus. The alliance of Turkey and Armenia is just the beginning of the eventual fulfillment of that moment at Armageddon Rev 19 depicts.
You are confusing modern day Armenia with ancient Armenia.
ReplyDeleteHere is an excerpt from this website:
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-%28Part10%29Ezekiel38&39.pdf
Togarmah was both the name of a district and a city in the border of Tubal in
eastern Cappadocia. Togarmah was known variously in history as Tegarma,
Tagarma, and Takarama. The ancient Assyrians referred to this city as Til-
garimmu. One of the maps of the Cambridge Ancient History locates Til-
garimmu on the northeast border of Tubal in the northeast part of modern
Turkey. Gesenius, the Hebrew scholar, identified Togarmah as a northern
nation abounding in horses and mules, located in ancient Armenia. The
ancient area of Armenia is located in the modern nation of Turkey.
Hi Anonymous,
DeleteThere are many different scholars who set the ancient boundaries of the listed nations in Ez 38-39 as slightly different from one another. That's why it's best not to be dogmatic. WHile most if not all understand that Turkey will be a part of the coming alliance, the question is, where do Turkey's current borders end and what ancient nations would modern day Turkey absorb if the ancient borders were in play today? Many scholars posit that Armenia will be part of the alliance, as the nation Beth-Togarmah (which used to include Turkey as well). Still others believe that beth-Togarmah will be even wider than Turkey-Armenia, and will also include Azerbaijan. Still others widen it further, to include more of the Baltic states.
In any case, your original objection for Armenia allying with Turkey in the coming prophetic war was based on current situations and feelings (Armenia hates Turkey, Turkey hates Armenia, one is Christian and another is Muslim etc). None of that has any meaning whatsoever in the face of the promise and certainty of God's prophetic word. If He says they will be in an alliance, they will be in an alliance.
We know that Rome is the sixth, but that would make the Ottoman Empire the seventh, and the revived Ottoman the eighth.
ReplyDeleteThe beast that was, and now is not, is himself an eighth king. He belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction.
Just my 2 cents...
ReplyDeleteThe sixth empire is the Roman Empire. In the 4th century the Roman Empire moved its capital to Constantinople (from Rome), and it continued until 1453, when it was conquered by the Ottoman Empire (Turks).
Thus, there is a clear succession from Rome to Ottoman. People confuse the Roman Empire with the city of Rome, when in fact the Roman Empire basically abandoned Rome for the more strategic location of Constantinople.
Revelation describes the anti-christ system in the last days as being a revival of the 7th empire, which is the Ottoman Empire.
Daniel 2 describes the same Empires, except from the perspective of Babylon (where the dream occurred). The significant empires in that region were Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Islam. Islam is the legs of iron. The Ottoman empire is the 4th kingdom of Daniel 2 and also the 7th kingdom of Revelation. The feet of clay and iron in Daniel 2 is the 8th kingdom of Revelation, which is a yet to occur revived Islamic empire, led by Turkey.
The beast which was, is not, and is to come is this:
The passage is saying that the anti-christ beast system will comprise empires which existed in the past (geographic areas) such as Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Persia, and Greece (particularly western Asia Minor). Rome ruled the world in the present, so when it says "is not" it means that Rome will not be a part of this system.
But this seems to conflict with the 7 heads (which are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and Istanbul). However, it does not conflict. What the passages in Revelation are saying (which is why it says, "Here is the mind that has wisdom..." it's something you really have to think about to figure out). It's saying that this kingdom in the last days will be Roman, but will not be Rome. The sixth empire (Roman) will be part of it, but it says "is not" so this excludes the then capital of the Roman Empire, Rome. It's pointing to Constantinople as the place to watch out for, not Rome. In the history of the Roman Empire, Constantinople was far more important and long-standing.
Maybe America is the 7th "one that is not come yet and here for a short while." The way America is going is much farther from God.
ReplyDelete