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Here are a couple of nuggets for you. I did not come up with these. Smarter people than I posed the question and brought the thought forward. The first is from a Q&A at Jack Kelley's site Grace Thru Faith regarding the first line in Psalm 83. The second is a thought from Joel Rosenberg.
Jack Kelley:
"Q. Psalm 83:3 says “They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.” The word “they” refers to the Arab confederates, and “thy people” refers to the nation of Israel. Who are the “hidden ones?” Could this be the raptured Church? If so, it would be a pretty strong hint that the Church is raptured before the battle of Psalm 83 takes place. What do you think?"
[Isaiah 26:20 states: "Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by."
"A. Since Psalm 83 and the rapture are not connected, there’s no reason why we have to be here when it happens. The phrase translated “hidden ones” in Psalm 83:3 means exactly that in Hebrew. Perhaps it’s not a coincidence that in Isaiah 26:20 a group of God’s people is told to hide themselves in advance of God’s wrath. Since this instruction immediately follows a resurrection in verse 19 it can’t be referring to believing Jews, whose resurrection takes place after the Great Tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). I believe Isaiah was referring to the Church and that Isaiah 26:19-21 is the source for Paul’s teaching on the rapture in 1 Thes. 4:15-17. (If so this would lend more support to the view that he taught a pre-trib rapture to the Thessalonians.) If Psalm 83:3 and Isaiah 26:20 refer to the same group of hidden ones, then you might just be correct in saying it’s another hint as to the sequence of End Times events."
This morning Joel C. Rosenberg wrote about shaking the nations. "The LORD is shaking the nations physically, spiritually, financially; Why? And how should we respond?"
It is a good essay outlining what, in his view, the nation-shaking is (Greece, US, Iran, Israel, Arab Nations etc). Then the verse from Haggai is presented:
"The Lord said through the ancient Hebrew Prophet Haggai that the nations would be shaken in the future. “For thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land. I will shake all the nations….I am going to shake the heavens and the earth. I will overthrow the thrones of kingdoms and destroy the power of the kingdoms of the nations.” (Haggai 2:6, 7, 21, 22)"
"In the New Testament, the Lord reinforced that theme. “See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven. And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, ‘Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heaven’….Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; for our God is a consuming fire.” (Hebrews 12:25-29)"
I appeal to one and all to be engaged in an acceptable service with reverence and awe. It IS the way we show gratitude to a Holy God all the things He has done for us. And that though the nations are shaken, our faith will remain upon the Rock that is the Eternal Savior.
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Jack Kelley:
"Q. Psalm 83:3 says “They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.” The word “they” refers to the Arab confederates, and “thy people” refers to the nation of Israel. Who are the “hidden ones?” Could this be the raptured Church? If so, it would be a pretty strong hint that the Church is raptured before the battle of Psalm 83 takes place. What do you think?"
[Isaiah 26:20 states: "Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by."
"A. Since Psalm 83 and the rapture are not connected, there’s no reason why we have to be here when it happens. The phrase translated “hidden ones” in Psalm 83:3 means exactly that in Hebrew. Perhaps it’s not a coincidence that in Isaiah 26:20 a group of God’s people is told to hide themselves in advance of God’s wrath. Since this instruction immediately follows a resurrection in verse 19 it can’t be referring to believing Jews, whose resurrection takes place after the Great Tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). I believe Isaiah was referring to the Church and that Isaiah 26:19-21 is the source for Paul’s teaching on the rapture in 1 Thes. 4:15-17. (If so this would lend more support to the view that he taught a pre-trib rapture to the Thessalonians.) If Psalm 83:3 and Isaiah 26:20 refer to the same group of hidden ones, then you might just be correct in saying it’s another hint as to the sequence of End Times events."
This morning Joel C. Rosenberg wrote about shaking the nations. "The LORD is shaking the nations physically, spiritually, financially; Why? And how should we respond?"
It is a good essay outlining what, in his view, the nation-shaking is (Greece, US, Iran, Israel, Arab Nations etc). Then the verse from Haggai is presented:
"The Lord said through the ancient Hebrew Prophet Haggai that the nations would be shaken in the future. “For thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land. I will shake all the nations….I am going to shake the heavens and the earth. I will overthrow the thrones of kingdoms and destroy the power of the kingdoms of the nations.” (Haggai 2:6, 7, 21, 22)"
"In the New Testament, the Lord reinforced that theme. “See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven. And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, ‘Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heaven’….Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; for our God is a consuming fire.” (Hebrews 12:25-29)"
I appeal to one and all to be engaged in an acceptable service with reverence and awe. It IS the way we show gratitude to a Holy God all the things He has done for us. And that though the nations are shaken, our faith will remain upon the Rock that is the Eternal Savior.
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Comments
If you look up the word "shake" in Hebrew it can mean to "rock"; in German the word (as a verb) can mean "to move."
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of shaking, I think of someone being shaken to get their attention.
I do believe many, many aspects of our world are about to be shaken from A to Z.
Will God get our attention? Will we "move?"
I love that verse from Isaiah. It is so precious to me.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking "hidden ones" was about the church as we are referred to in Colossians 3:3 - "For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." Also, it sort of makes no sense why Arabs consult against or do anything against people that have vanished into thin air? I understand them conspiring against the church before the rapture because we are one of the few groups on earth that vehemently support Israel (even Jews are beginning to see we are sincere about our support and I can imagine when everyone turns their backs on Israel, the true church will be the only ones left in support of them) but why would they bother if we are not here? It's just a thought I guess but it's so interesting to ponder as prophecy usually is.
ReplyDeleteI sort of hope we are here for a prophetic event directly mentioned in scripture! I remember you said, it would be amazing evidence to the validity of the word of God and maybe it might lead many that have been asleep and rejecting Christ to salvation!!
Debbie, I thought that same thing too. It does make no sense to conspire against people who aren't there. he best I could to is think that the conspiracy was afoot and then we vanished. But I don't know, the verse doesn't clearly say one way or the other and neither does the Hebrew so like you say, an interesting thing to ponder until we get there.
ReplyDeleteIf Isaiah 17:1 happens while we are on earth or even Psalm 83I will be yelling up and down the streets! My pastor thinks we will be here for some of the beginning of either one of those events, so that we can witness about them.
Jimbo, that is really interesting. I loved learning that!
Emily, John MacArthur used that verse in the 22 minute portion of the sermon I posted about 'what kind of worship does God desire'...it is amazing to ponder His holiness and the courts of praise in heaven! Even more amazing to think we'll be there, probably soon. Joseph Chambers wrote on RaptureReady.com today that "Judgment is so near that there is a sense of awe in the air."
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/chambers/jc135.html
Concerning the world being all shook up, I was wondering how you believe 1 Thessalonians 5:3 plays in to the end times. "For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape."
ReplyDeleteDo you believe their will be a temporary calm and the worlds problems seems to be easing or is this referring to unbelievers will be totally blind to the fact they will have to face the judgement of God. In another words,unbelievers will be thinking Jesus will not come to judge. I think it is the latter, but wanted to hear your thoughts.
Hi Ken,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your question. In the verse from 1 Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say Peace and safety then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child __ and they shall not escape" I first look at the context. The paragraph there is The Day of the Lord, typically meaning the period in which the Lord delivers His wrath as punished to an unbelieving world. Therefore the rapture will have already taken place and the 'they' saying peace and safety are the people in the Tribulation. So ho is saying peace and safety? Either the Jews, or the unbelievers.
The 'peace' used here from the Greek means peace of mind, and is the word typically used in a Jewish farewell, as in 'peace to you.' The safety is just that, safety both figurative and literal. Now as tot he interpretation...
If it is the Jews saying peace and safety, Some have said that the Isaiah 17:1 and Psalm 83 may occur prior to the tribulation, and since Israel (God) is victorious in those battles, firmly and swiftly vanquishing the Arab coalition, that it is this which sets Israel up for a feeling of peace, in therms of letting down her guard, and 'NOW we've got them!" Then theGog-Magog war happens and it is a total surprise, so much so that she is almost destroyed. God uses that battle to show Himself that He is LORD, and all on earth see and know it is HIM. (Ez 38-39, 'Then they will know I am the LORD, many times stated int he chapters).
If it is the world saying peace and safety, it could be after the abomination of desolation, when the enemy keeps telling the world that this age is falling apart only to usher in a new age of peace and safety. There are many cross references in the OT referring to the Day of the Lord and the issue of 'them saying peace' such as Amos, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zephaniah and Malachi with parallel verses saying things like "they keep saying there is peace, but there is no peace." Or as in Jeremiah 6, where the false prophets kept saying 'peace, peace, but there is no peace' saying it even as the armies were advancing within their sight.
I don't think there will be a temporary calm...because of the metaphor the Lord gave us that it will be like labor. Labor only increases in intensity. I don't think there will be an actual temporary calm, only the words claiming that there will be a calm soon, but it will be false. Here is a quote from a sermon on that verse:
"Amos, for example, shows us that the day of the Lord will be darkness and not light. It will be judgment and not mercy. It will be wrath and not blessing. He shows us that the day of the Lord will bring a disruption of the physical order, a cosmic catastrophe caused by God Himself as He overrules the natural process. Amos tells us that under the fury of divine judgment on the day of the Lord the whole earth will devastated and will become like a turbulent sea or like the rising and falling of the Nile River which overflows its banks for miles, drowning and submerging everything in its wake. Amos tells us that the sun will go out at noon and cover the whole world in darkness. And then Amos says supernatural fire will come to destroy the sea and the land."
In a sense I agree with you that unbelievers will not believe Jesus is coming to judge, they never believed it and after a certain point in the tribulation they can't believe it because they took the mark and their destiny (and beliefs)are set in stone.
Not that it matters in the least to me and I am not arguing, simply stating something I feel: after the rapture I do believe there will be a time of peace and relative safety. Personally, I think this will last for 3 and a half years.
ReplyDeleteThank you Elizabeth for replying to my question. I appreciate it very much. Have a blessed day,
ReplyDeleteKen