Friday, September 16, 2011

The 'Last Trump' of Corinthians and the 7th trumpet of Revelation are not the same

Many people mistake the rapture as occurring during the Tribulation because of two different verses which they misinterpret the meaning of. Here they are:

"Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:50-52)

"The Seventh Trumpet—Christ’s Reign Foreseen: "Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,..." (Rev 11:15)

On the face of it, the two don't look like they have much to do with each other, do they? And they don't. But some people insist that they do, merely by virtue of the fact that in the 1 Cor, verse, there is mentioned a 'last ump' and in the Rev 11 verse there is mentioned a 7th trumpet of judgment being blown, which is the last trumpet of judgment in that series.

But of course the 7th Trumpet is NOT the Last trump. The only thing they have in common is that they are trumpets. You might as well tie Aaron's trumpet into it, if you're going to pick and choose trumpets. There are lots of trumpets in the bible. They:
  • Regulate the journeys of the children of Israel.
  • Call assemblies.
  • Blow over the sacrifices on the feast day.
  • Blow at all religious processions and ceremonies.
  • Assemble the people to war.
  • Sound for a memorial when the people went into battle.
  • Proclaim kings.
  • Give alarm in cases of danger.
  • Announce miracles being performed
The trumpet of Revelation and the trumpet Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians have nothing to do with each other. Here's one reason why. The Trumpet judgments are spread over Rev 8-9-10-11. Rev 8:6 begins them- "And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound." Then Rev 10:7 tells us that when the last trumpet sounds, the wrath is DONE. Rev 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." And Rev 11:15 declares that finish the woes with the 7th trumpet sounding: "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.'"

So first of all, the trumpets conclude the wrath, to which we are not appointed.(1 Thessalonians 5:9). It is not a mystery when the wrath begins, either. It begins with the opening of the seal judgments and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are released, at Rev 6:1. As the seals are opened we are told that so begins the wrath, 'the wrath has come.' (Rev 6:17). Again, because we are not appointed to wrath, we will not be here for it. And that includes since Rev 6:1 so obviously we won't be here for the 7th Trumpet judgment which occurs much later.

There is a second reason the 7th trumpet judgment and the 'Last Trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52 are not the same. You notice in the above verses, Angels blow the trumpets. The angels all line up. They all have a trumpet. Them they all blow one in turn. "And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets" (Rev 8:2). In the parallel rapture verse of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it is the trump of God that is blown.

"15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words."

The last trump in 1 Thess 4:16 is the Trump of GOD.

"There are trumpets all over the bible. They were used for a variety of purposes. But there is one trumpet that is special. in Exodus 19 verses 16 to 19 a trumpet called the people out of the camp to meet God. It was a trumpet of assembly and it called them out of the camp to meet God. I believe this is a trumpet of assembly. In Zephaniah 1:16 and Zechariah 9:14 a trumpet was used as a signal of the Lord's coming to rescue His people from wicked oppression. It was a deliverance trumpet. And I believe the trumpet on that day is an assembly trumpet and a deliverance trumpet. I believe when the trumpet blows it is to assemble the saints who have been called out of the graves to life with the living saints and it is also to call them out, to rescue them out from among those who oppress them, men and demons. There are many other trumpets associated with the end times, they tend to be trumpets of judgment, primarily as in Revelation 8 through 11." (source gty.org)

I hope you can see that the verses are clear that the wrath begins in Rev 6, and we will not be here for it. That the 7th trumpet is stated to conclude the wrath, and again, we will be long gone. And finally, just because it says a trumpet in both verses, does not mean they are the same event. The angels raise trumpets for judgments to begin and God shouts the trumpet for us to assemble.

Take a look at the 40 second clip. I love how the rapture is depicted.



17 comments:

  1. Interesting article. I have a question when you say the following:

    "The last trump in 1 Cor 15:52 is the Trump of GOD."

    Where in that verse does it say distinctly that it is blown from God?

    Warmly,
    Randy

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    1. Good catch Randy! Thank you for the question and the opportunity for me to correct it.

      I had meant to use the verse from 1 Thessalonians 4:16 in making the point- and I forgot to add it. The 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15 are considered parallel verses in describing the rapture and its trumpet. It is the Thessalonians verse which states it is the trump of God and not the Corinthians verse. I will go ahead and add that above. Here are the 1Thessalonians 4 verses:

      15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

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  2. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation y our Lord Jesus Christ.

    So the Pre. Tribulation forsake all evidence for the obvious Mid Trib. Rapture because erroneous interpretation of this one scripture in 1 Thess. 5:9. I'd like to add my peace here.

    There is only one tribulation period which last for 7 years. Matt 24:21 defines the middle of that time period at the 3 1/2 year mark as the "Abomination of Desolation" This signifies Mid Trib.

    Now it says we are not appointed to Wrath but Salvation.

    Here in this scripture I truly believe that the first part of Tribulation is not wrath but simply the events that lead up to the Anti Christ treaty, and yes the persecution of the Church as it was in the days of old. They faced persecution in the days of old. PERSECUTION but still received Salvation.

    After the 7th trumpet we see the Final and Great Wrath of God. Listen guys, for those left after the Rapture they will have to be killed in order to be SAVED, but they will be SAVED.

    Wrath is being used to described "away from internal life, or eternal damnation. Living eternally in the Lake of Fire.

    Otherwise God is a Lie and Hebrew 6:18 states He is not. How can a person that are Left behind after the rapture be saved but go through the WRATH of GOD. They did not. They simply were chronologically late to the RAPTURE but did not taste of the wrath but did die to PREVENT the wrath or "Eternal Damnation" or Lake of Fire.

    They key word in 1 Thess. 5:9 is SALVATION. Those left behind were SAVE ALSO and did not feel God's wrath. They did face adversity.

    The trumpets are the same in 1 Thess 4, I Cor 15, and Revelation 10. As a matter of fact the word MYSTERY is used in 1 Cor 15:52 and Rev. 10:7.

    That is the mystery of the Rapture. God Bless !!!!

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    1. Hello Jimmie,

      No, not 'only one verse." Thee are many which define the pre-tribulation timing. I refer you to this list-

      http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-differences-between-rapture-and.html

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    2. Remember Jesus saying the words, As in the "DAYS OF NOAH WERE So shall the coming of the SON OF MAN BE " ? Throughout the bible when Almighty God has poured out HIS wrath and judgement (not mans wrath) upon an unrepentant world, HE has rescued the Faithful, The Overcomers, those who have accepted His ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS SACRIFICE on the Cross of Cavalry for the forgiveness of their sins. Noah and His sons were rescued from HIS wrath and Judgement ( The Flood) on the earth and We will be rescued when The last trump is sounded, and we are removed from the earth to be with the LORD. It is those who are found Faithful that will be rescued from the WRATH and JUDGEMENT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION (JUST LIKE NOAH). That doesn't mean we won't experience persecution before that time,Christians are being persecuted now and have suffered persecution throughout the Church age, but we are instructed not to think that persecution is something strange,But we are to count it all JOY. 1st Peter. What would be the purpose of comforting one another with the words of Thes. if we are going to go through the same judgement and wrath as the unsaved and unrepentant world ? What would be Gods purpose in that ??? The Great Tribulation is a last chance for an unrepentant world, and for the Jews to recognize Jesus Christ as the True Messiah. That is the purpose of the two witnesses Elijah and Enoch who preach the Gospel of Christ as the Messiah,resulting in 144,000 , 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes being saved and spreading the gospel of Christ during that time period. We will not be here, we will be with OUR LORD FOREVER.

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  3. Read revelation 11:18 carefully .

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  4. Where is Matthew 24? This is Jesus answering the question that everyone is still trying to twist into their own ideology! He is asked point blankly by his disciples.
    Whenever Paul and John's writings are misconstrued, it is contradicting what Jesus answered PLAINLY.
    "Immediately after the distress of those days.....he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect..."Matthew 24.
    Read the list of "distresses" He just told them about in the same chapter. And he tells them "YOU" will go through this.
    One more thing. Noah went through the flood but was protected by a means that God provided.
    Salvation is, as the bible tells his believers, the means He provides to protect them from His wrath, not by removal. Again, He instructs His disciples that they will see and go through this. There is no mention that there is rapture before the "distresses", but to the contrary.
    Read Matthew 24 and compare other scripture to what JESUS said.
    BTW, always a great topic for discussion.
    Thanks

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    1. Hello Tone,

      Yes it is a great topic! Thanks for commenting.

      Matthew 24 is a passage directly relating to the Jews and NOT the church. it parallels Daniel 12 and Rev 6, and in no way refers to the bride of Jesus. The tribulation is for the Jews, wrath poured out on them as prophesied and also onto the unbelieving, rejecting world.

      You're right about Noah, however you misapplied it. God will supernaturally protect His people in Petra/Bozrah, for three and a half years of the Tribulation. When Jesus says in Matthew 24 when they see the abomination of desolation (something the Jews would care about, the desecration of the temple, not the church) He said to run to the mountains. The only mountains are east of the city, over them and to the SE is Petra. It is there the fleeing Jewish remnant will be protected as Noah was in the ark. (Mt 24:15-16, Dan 11:41, Rev 12:14). Actually at the 2nd coming, Jesus makes a stop at Petra on the way to Armageddon, to deliver His people before continuing to the Mount of Olives for His touchdown at 2nd coming. (Isaiah 63:1-6). It is in Petra they turn en masse to Jesus. (Zech 12:10)

      No, the ark is typology for the Jews. Our typology is Enoch. (Gen 5:22, 24). Faithful Enoch was taken alive to escape the coming wrath (the flood). When the time of the very end occurs, Jesus returns as Enoch prophesied with His holy ones (us) as Jude 1:14-15 shows.

      Read Matthew 24 again, Tone, with the Tribulation in mind and that it only refers to the Jews (cf Daniel 12, Jeremiah 30)

      The elect are mentioned in Mt 24 in verse 22, (for the sake of the elect the days will be cut short), verse 24 (false prophets arise and would fool even the elect if possible') verse 31, 'gather His elect'). The elect that are being gathered in Mt 24 are the Jewish believers who converted at Petra and the tribulation saints from the whole earth who made it thru alive. He is gathering them because they have been scattered all over the world hiding under rocks and such from the terrors of the antichrist. Jesus sends angels to gather them so they will be readied to enter the Millennial Kingdom He is about to set up.

      He already gathered his Bride, at the rapture, that is who Enoch prophesied the world will see returning WITH Jesus when He comes the second time. We have been with Him the whole time in heaven, having the Bema Seat awards ceremony and singing songs to Him in worship.

      We are not appointed to wrath (1 Thess 5:9) and He will keep us from the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world. Rev 3:10. It is clear, and happily so. Make sense?

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    2. Matt 24, mark 13, luke 21, are the same. Mark 13 vs 37 says And what I say unto you, I say unto ALL. (ALL) Means everyone. Jews and gentiles. To top it off.. In matt 28 vs 19-20 says Go ye therefore,and teach (ALL) nations,baptizing them in the name of the father,the son and Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe (ALL) things whatsoever I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always,even unto the end of the world. ALL OF JESUS TEACHING IS FOR ALL. if you disagree, then dont take holy communion. Because its for the jews.

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    3. I was with you until you said communion was for the Jews. Can you explain that please?

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  5. What about John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

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    1. Hi Sharon,

      As with all scripture, we look at the context. Jesus is not speaking of the end times in thatpassage. It's not about eschatology. it is about His prayer for the apostles as they go out and spread the message. Gill's Commentary says of the verse,

      I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world—for that, though it would secure their own safety, would leave the world unblessed by their testimony.

      It is the great priestly prayer Jesus is delivering as he prepares to depart the earth and ascend after the cross.

      However when the time comes, the quota Jesus has in ind to fill the church will be complete in the full number (Romans 11:25) and we will be raptured out prior to the start of the Tribulation so the earth can endure its punishment

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  6. I think it is interesting that you speak of contexts. Take for instance 2Thessalonians often used to support a mid-rapture event; those verse are specifically dealing with the restrainer. What is the context of those verses? It is the second coming of Jesus and not he antichrist. It is a marker that Paul uses to tell the Thessalonians that they have not missed the second coming. And what is the marker? It is not the Holy Ghost; it is the antichrist. The Antichrist restrains the second coming of Christ, because certain events must happen before he comes back. The Thessalonians can rest assured they have not missed the second coming because the beast has not had his 3.5 years yet. Also, take the time to look up the Greek meanings of these verses everybody uses to talk of a pre or mid tribulation rapture. I am afraid you will not find support in the original language for a pre-millennialist view. He comes back the same way he left in the clouds not in secret...this is scripture pure and simple (Acts 1:11). What are the contexts behind the verses you cite for pre or mid rapture event and what are the Greek meanings of the words cited. I have researched probably many of the verses you list because we study to show our selves approved (2Timothy 2:15). For instance this verse, Luke 21:36 read as thus:

    Agrupneo (watch / be ready) ye oun (therefore / and) deomai (pray / beg / make supplications) that ye may be kataxioo (Accounted -to deem worthy) to ekpheugo (escape – to seek safty in flight) all these things that mello (shall – be about to) come to pass, and to histemi (stand - in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, / to escape to safety) before the son of man.

    To escape by flight, to leave temptation by flight, to place you reliance on Christ to see you through the temptations, not raptured; not at all.

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  7. Matthew 24 speaks about two different communities; "those in Judea" (the Jews) and "the elect" (the church). Jesus clearly places His return and the gathering of the elect AFTER the Tribulation, in fact, He even says that the Tribulation is shortened for the sake of the elect. His description of the "gathering" is consistent with Paul's description. I am amazed at how difficult people make this. Matthew is chronologically consistent with the Revelation.

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    1. I agree with you. Jesus returns in the air to gather his church so as to remove them from the wrath coming in the Tribulation judgments. He had promised we would not endure the wrath that is to come upon the entire world (Rev 3:10). Once removed, He then unleashes His fury upon the Jews as He had promised them their future punishment,and also to the unbelieving world, for 7 years. He returns at the end WITH his elect to rescue the remnant (Zech 12), and judge the living, so as to see which mortals who were still living at the end of the Tribulation can enter the millennial kingdom. I agree, it's not complicated.

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