Wednesday, October 10, 2012

Mitt Romney and the Mormon white horse prophecy

An alert reader wanted to know about the Mormon so-called "White Horse Prophecy" and whether this prophecy should impact a voter's decision regarding Mr Mitt Romney this November 6th one way or another.

The White Horse Prophecy is a prophecy that was allegedly made by Mormon "prophet" Joseph Smith.

It is a belief ingrained in Mormon culture and passed down through generations by church leaders that the day would come when the U.S. Constitution would “hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber” and the Mormon priesthood would save it, as Salon.com described it, and the Salt Lake Tribune wrote in 2007 when Romney first ran, "In the latter days, the story goes, the U.S. Constitution will hang by a thread and a Mormon will ride in on a metaphorical white horse to save it."

The prophecy was claimed to have been taught by Joseph Smith in 1840-43 but not revealed until a diary entry by John Roberts was discovered that had been written in 1902, more than 60 years after the fact. Due to the difficulty in authenticating the prophecy and its origins, the LDS church rejects it as doctrine and most Mormons do not believe in it. As they say.

Salon.com's most interesting article about Mitt Romney and the alleged White Horse prophecy is from earlier this year. Here are some excerpts, but I suggest you read the entire article. It discusses one of the reasons Mormonism was founded, which was to take the government back and institute Mormons in government offices. The goal was the White House. Joseph Smith was shot and killed in Washington DC as he campaigned on this platform.
"Romney avoids mentioning it, but [Joseph] Smith ran for president in 1844 as an independent commander in chief of an “army of God” advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government in favor of a Mormon-ruled theocracy. Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church. He had predicted the emergence of “the one Mighty and Strong” — a leader who would “set in order the house of God” — and became the first of many prominent Mormon men to claim the mantle."
"Smith’s insertion of religion into politics and his call for a “theodemocracy where God and people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters” created a sensation and drew hostility from the outside world. But his candidacy was cut short when he was shot to death by an anti-Mormon vigilante mob. Out of Smith’s national political ambitions grew what would become known in Mormon circles as the “White Horse Prophecy” — a belief ingrained in Mormon culture and passed down through generations by church leaders that the day would come when the U.S. Constitution would “hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber” and the Mormon priesthood would save it.
"Moody is a seventh-generation Mormon, steeped in the same intellectual and theological milieu [as Romney, who is also 7th generation Mormon].
“We were taught that America is the Promised Land,” Moody said in an interview.” The Mormons are the Chosen People. And the time is now for a Mormon leader to usher in the second coming of Christ and install the political Kingdom of God in Washington, D.C.”
"In this scenario, Romney’s candidacy is part of the eternal plan and the candidate himself is fulfilling the destiny begun in what the church calls the “pre-existence.”
"Several prominent Mormons, including conservative talk-show host Glenn Beck, have alluded to this apocalyptic prophecy. The controversial myth is not an official church doctrine, but it has also arisen in the national dialogue with the presidential candidacies of Mormons George Romney, Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and now Mitt Romney."
The question is, does Mitt Romney view the American presidency as a theological office? He says no. He says he does not believe in the White Horse Prophecy.

The Salt Lake Tribune covered the Romney campaign in 2007. Once again, these are excerpts only.

(2007) Romney candidacy has resurrected last days prophecy of Mormon saving the Constitution
WASHINGTON - It's Mormon lore, a story passed along by some old-timers about the importance of their faith and their country. In the latter days, the story goes, the U.S. Constitution will hang by a thread and a Mormon will ride in on a metaphorical white horse to save it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says it does not accept the legend - commonly referred to as the "White Horse Prophecy" - as doctrine.
The issue, however, has been raised on those occasions when Mormons have sought the Oval Office: George Romney was asked about it during his bid in 1968, Sen. Orrin Hatch discussed it when he ran in 2000, and now Mitt Romney. "It is being raised," says Phil Barlow, a professor of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University. "I've heard it a bit lately."
Romney says he doesn't believe in the supposed prophecy, nor did his father when he ran.
"I haven't heard my name associated with it or anything of that nature," Mitt Romney told The Salt Lake Tribune during an interview earlier this year. "That's not official church doctrine. There are a lot of things that are speculation and discussion by church members and even church leaders that aren't official church doctrine. I don't put that at the heart of my religious belief."
The disputed prophecy was recorded in a diary entry of a Mormon who had heard the tale from two men who were with Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Ill. when he supposedly declared the prophecy.
"You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed," the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. "It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber."
Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government. "Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion," the prophecy says.
So, what are Christians to make of this? Will we be putting America at risk by voting for Romney? Is there anything to this prophecy? The Washington Post published an article on October 9th which clearly shows that evangelicals are mighty skittish about Mr Romney:

"Evangelical leaders worried that Mitt Romney’s Mormonism could suppress conservative turnout on Election Day are intensifying appeals for Christians to vote. In poll after poll, evangelicals have overwhelmingly said they would back the Republican presidential nominee despite theological differences with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But what had been thought of as a hypothetical question for American evangelicals for years, Southern Baptist leader Al Mohler said recently, is now a reality with this election and is being tested in a contest that will likely be decided by slim margins. “The fact is that Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and many of our people are very, very uncomfortable about voting for a Mormon, as I am. I supported somebody else in the primary. But, hey, we have no option,” said Steve Strang, an influential Pentecostal publisher, in a conference call with pastors last week."

Personally I believe not. First of all, Mormonism is not a Christian religion, so any prophecies coming from their leaders is not from Jesus. Jeremiah 28:9 gives the barometer of true versus false prophets: "But the prophet who prophesies peace will be recognized as one truly sent by the Lord only if his prediction comes true” (Jer. 28:9)." Ezekiel 33:33 says the same. Since Mr Smith has many failed prophesies then we can confidently say that his words are not from the Lord.

Deuteronomy 13:3 warns us not to listen to the false prophets.

But it does seem that the Constitution IS hanging by a thread...and if Romney gets in to the White House that the Mormons will seize on the moment and institute a false...something. Maybe so, maybe that will exactly happen. Or not.

We can be sure that whoever gets in to the White House, if we are not raptured by then or of Obama doesn't institute martial law and simply stop the election, or refuses to vacate the White House in January, or any other scenario, GOD IS IN CONTROL.

There are many prophecies in the world. Will the world end in December 2012 as the Mayan Long Count prophecy seems to indicate? Do we change our routine or decisions based on the Mayan Doom prophecy? Of course not. We know there will be 7 years of Tribulation and then 1000 years of peace before the world passes away, so again the Mayan prophecy is false and the Lord is true. It is the same with the Mormon White Horse prophecy. Do we alter our decision making based on a false prophecy? Of course not. We look to the bible and see what it may say about choosing leaders, or about our participation in government, but we don't do or not do something because of what a false prophet has said.

(Personally I resent any comparison of anyone or anything to the White Horse of Rev 19:11 that Jesus rides to smite the sinners and save the world. NONE but Jesus will ride a White Horse to the world's rescue!!!)

Daniel 2:21 assures us that "He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding). We are not citizens of this world. If God chooses to judge America by removing our liberties, then He will do so. He may use the vehicle of Obama to do it. If He wants to judge us by allowing a harlot religion to flourish, then He may do so, using the vehicle of Romney to do it. We don't know, but we love the LORD and His ways. His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)

All we have to do is remember our accountability to Him. We need to vote for the man or woman who best will fulfill their job, ethically and morally. We are on the road to serious, destructive, damning sin. Do we vote for a man who exemplifies sin and has done so for the last four years in everything he says and does? Or do we vote for a man who has a track record of selfless service, generosity, charity, and morals? Or do we want to vote for another person who is not of the main parties who more closely aligns with your own doctrines or political ideology? It is for each individual Christian to decide, but in all, we give an account to God for our decision. Make it wisely, prayerfully.

He will work ALL to His good and glory. "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28). False prophesies are just that, false. Read Ezekiel 13:1-16 for the word on how God will deal with false prophets who spout false prophecies. We need not worry about that. All we need do is remember that God will set up in His government whom He wants, regardless of our vote. What we are voting for is not the outcome but the opportunity to make a good account to the Lord.

30 comments:

  1. God is in control that is true and He allows principalities to set over the earth with authority. It is very plausible that the enemy, spirit of the anti-christ to use this vessel to bring about not only a new world order but a single religion as well.
    The statement of Mitt Romney not seeing the presidency as a theological one is no more reliable than BHO's profession of faith Anybody who thinks that the enemy won't lie to attain power is not very aware of the truth.
    God is in control
    Jesus is king
    And He is coming back

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    1. Hi Jeff,

      In reading the article from Salon, it made things clear how drenched and steeped in Mormon theology Romney is. Unlike other candidates who conveniently say they are Christian when voting time comes around, like McCain or Clinton, and who may indeed be Christian at an immature level, Romney can't have grown up in a 7th generation home and have lived all his life to Mormon principles and NOT be deeply affected by the opportunity to instill a theo-democracy which is at the core of his religion's founder's goals. He says not, but that's why I wrote "as they say". I am in more of a quandary now than before I researched for this essay. And I was in a dilemma then.

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  2. in the book of 2nd samuel there is a scripture verse that says in ch23:3 The God of israel said,the rock of israel spake to me ,he that ruleth over men must be just,ruling in the fear of God. now thats what the lord expects of a leader and much more ,but sadly our leaders today are not in line with scripture ,i think a lot of prayer is needed for an ocasion as this and the holy spirit will guide our hearts in which ever nation we are from as to what the lords will is, take it to God in prayer ,God bless

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  3. Hi Elizabeth,

    Thank you again for your great post. Initially I was against voting for a Mormon but I agree with Romney's goals for America. I also like his experience and background, he has much more to offer this country than a community organizer. As you said it before, we are not choosing a spiritual leader but one to run this country. I was always told that to vote outside of the main parties was a waste of a vote. Yes it does make a personal statement but actually does more harm than good. I did this once but regretted it afterwards when I saw the outcome. I can honestly say that I will vote for Romney and have no problem explaining why to the Lord. Laura.

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  4. As someone laughingly stated elsewhere, I don't care if Mitt Romney believes the moon is made of goat cheese, he's far better equipped to deal with the problems this country is facing than the sitting President ever was or will be.

    Not to mention Obama while falsely claiming to be a Christian to some groups, goes on to deride the sermon on the mount as 'radical' and not something you can base a society off of in others. He has no problem disrespecting Christianity and Judaism while glorifying the 'Prophet' Mo; I'm not sure Romney can do any worse than that.
    -Vincent

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  5. Not voting for Romney will be worse for America, because the unbeliever in office now is worse than unbelieving Romney.

    And the story about why Mormonism was founded is a bunch of rubbish. Smith was a necromancer and a money digger who came up with the BOM as a way to make more money, not expecting to make money out of the idea. But people began to believe it so he developed a religion around it, with no thought whatsoever of "tak[ing] the government back and institute Mormons in government offices." That idea didn't come around until Smith was a candidate for the presidency, long after all the troubles in Ohio and Missouri. I really wish these guys who say this stuff would study LDS history a bit more thoroughly.

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  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  7. Let's not forget that Joseph Smith was a 33rd degree mason and while he may have had his own ambitions so did satan and mystery babylon will continue to morph into what culminates at the end of times to become the single leadership lead by satan. Turn America around to what? It was never a christian nation, ever. Freemason's and deist's.

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  8. I'd like to make one more point.

    In the USA we, the people, are the government. It is incumbent upon us to elect officials who will be the best for this nation. Nowhere in Scripture does it say we are not to participate in the political process; we can be citizens of heaven as well as citizens in the country in which we reside. We do not know what God will have in the future in the use of our nation, but we should still make decisions based on what will provide us as individuals the freedom to practice our faith for as long as possible. It is a foregone conclusion, based on prophecy, that things will get worse, but we do not know when this will happen, nor do we know how or whether God will use the USA to punish other nations.

    It is apparent by reviewing history that God used the USA in a mighty way to punish evil in the world and to provide a haven for the free exercise of religion to the point where no nation has ever sent out as many missionaries around the world spreading the Good News. We can only do our own part in keeping this freedom alive. When there are only two real choices in this country - Democrat or Republican - we must always choose the lesser of the two evils. Since the Democratic platform calls for abortion, promotion of the homosexual agenda to include same-sex fake marriage, promotion of sexual immorality in general, theft of personal property by onerous taxes, redistribution of the wealth, and removal of God from the public square, it is entirely wrong for Christians to ever vote for a member of that party.

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  9. I removed my earlier comment because I was speaking out of so much frustration over this. It seems that many are just not getting it. We are to honor God in whatever we do, that is first and foremost. And we are to pray about doing God's will. What if you are going against God's will by voting? Someone once said if you are voting for the lesser of two evils it is still evil. I thought of something else. Since Obama is preparing for martial law, what if it looks like he is going to lose and declares it before the election? This has become so dividing and causing so much strife. I am letting go and letting God.

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    1. Hi Yvonne,
      I feel frustrated too, tied up in knows to know what the right thing is that will honor God.

      I cannot vote based on what might happen though, I fully believe that if Obama loses he may not relinquish the position and cling to it via military or legislative means. That could happen.

      But all is in God's sovereign control. I've learned thru researching this election that who we vote for does not change the outcome that God wants to happen, it only allows us to be part of a process that reveals our heart and makes us answerable to Him for our decisions.

      I think this election and the candidates as a dividing issue is intentional by God. It is part of the process to mature us and to prepare for when He will sift the wheat from the chaff.

      The only decision I've come to is not to stand on the sidelines as I had planned to do, but to vote. For whom, I do not know yet. I'm with you, Yvonne, frustrated and a course of action is yet unclear.

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    2. I had thought of voting for someone who more closely matched my political views. Virgil Goode. That is something I have been thinking of doing. Someone had told me that I would be throwing my vote away and giving Obama a vote. Also that there is bad in everyone. Would God be pleased if I voted for one of two very evil men? Still wrestling with this decision.

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    3. I HATE it when people tell me I am throwing away my vote! First of all, if everyone voted for who they thought was best then that would make a better election. What did people do before polling and insta-pundits telling us who was going to win, before the technological age? My oh my, how did they decide who to vote for, then?

      I have voted third party many times. Many. I am always satisfied if I do this because I feel I have done my diligence and voted the best I could based on my understanding. No one can ask for a better citizen than one who has thoughtfully put in time to discern the best man for the job! That is what I believe the bible calls us to do: research, pray, participate, and submit to the results. Doing anything else is hedging bets, juggling numbers, and playing the lottery.

      On a spiritual level, how do we know that the Spirit is not putting on the heart of people to vote for a certain third party candidate, by the thousands & millions? How do we know? He may be doing that! If everyone voted the way the Spirit was leading them and did not vote based on numerical projections, we may indeed have had a third party candidate win a long time ago! At the very least, the stunning success of John Anderson and Ross Perot made the resulting governments better, and the elections that followed a little more mindful!

      The election outcome is in God's hands. Our vote does not matter a whit in terms of the worldly outcome, only that it is a process for the Christian of diligence and submission to the biblical teaching that we participate in the government HE SETS UP.

      Yvonne, vote for the best man for the job, who you feel will lead the nation in an ethical and moral way, who will uphold the Constitution to the best of his ability, and who will defend and protect the people. That is what the job entails, after all.

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    4. Thank you so much for your comment. It really encourages me that some of us get it. We are not to blindly follow what others are saying or doing. God bless and love your posts.

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    5. I just wanted to add that I thought it was interesting what Hal Lindsey said in his program preview today. He said "in the last days a strong delusion will overtake the world that will facilitate the antichrist. I believe the conditioning process for this strong delusion is well underway." Everyone is looking for a man to solve the problems in this nation and this world. Maranatha

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    6. Oh good! His next report is out. I'll check it out after lunch! Have a great day Yvonne. Stay strong, sister :) Jesus is love and He is coming for His bride soon.

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  10. The reality is still that either a Republican or Democrat will win - never a 3rd party. History has shown that voting 3rd party will usually help the incumbent.

    If people are worried about voting for evil men, it is a fact that all men are evil in varying degrees, and politicians are usually all evil. So all you are ever doing is voting one evil over another. If you think otherwise, you are being very naive.

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  11. Popular vote does not elect the President anyway; the Electoral College does, so I'm not sure how my vote comes in to play with this. I am tied up in knots, too, Elizabeth. One day I'm not voting; one day I'm voting for a write-in candidate; then I start thinking about voting for Mr. Romney and I end up back where I started. One thing is for sure...I will not be voting for Mr. Obama.

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    1. Hi Kim,

      I think I made my decision today. I listened to MacArthur's three sermons, read Randy Alcorn's piece, and read all 6 of Frank Turk's essays on the Pyro blog. (Pyromaniacs here: http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2012/10/i-cant-vote-for-mitt-romney-3-of-6.html
      parts 3,4,5 were hilarious and pointed).

      I consider all three men my national pastors, mature men of the faith whom I respect. All three essentially said vote for Romney (MacArthur was implicit, the other two were explicit). Since I have studied it, prayed it, researched it, and have not been able to come to a decision, I decided to follow Hebrews 13:17.

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  12. related news.... Billy Graham group removes Mormons from cult list.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/billy-grahams-website-removes-mormonism-from-cult-list/

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  13. My religion teaches that God gave us a choice of whom to serve. I do not agree that it is morally or religiously right to force God or my religious views upon another. Therefore, I feel that voting is about endorsing the candidate that best aligns with the political views beneficial to our nation. I do not support abortion. If citizens paid attention they would know that Vice President Biden does not either. However, like myself, he realizes that it is immoral to force his beliefs upon others. God wants us to choose him. God has never in any version of any Bible I've read forced Christianity on those unwilling to allow him into their hearts. I wish we as Christians would apply the basic foundations of Christianity more often. I choose God. I allow others the same choice. Additionally, pastors and Christian disgust me with their political agendas and instructions on whom to vote for. God is about free will and choice. He allowed us this choice from the beginning in the garden of Eden. If God wanted us to serve him without question, he would've designed us to do so when he made us.

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    1. Here's the problem with your thinking, Nicole. We do not serve the President - he serves us. We are his employer and we hire the best man for the job. Nowhere are Christians directed to hire only other Christians to work in their employ.

      No one is trying to force any religious views on anyone else. Morality is not just a religious view. VP Biden supports abortion merely by being a Democrat, because the Democrat Party Platform supports unlimited abortion, as well as the homosexual agenda - including same-sex fake marriage.

      God is about free will and free choice in that he allows us to chose for Him or against Him. Pastors and other real Christian leaders are suggesting that we vote to employ the best man for the job and one who is not bent on the moral and fiscal destruction of this nation - as is Obama and the Democratic Party.

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    2. You are in correct in that the President serves us. That includes ALL OF US. Morality has several different theories that are not founded on religious views. Additionally, there are numerous theories that may be applied in defining morality. Everyone does not share the same morals much like they don't share the same religious beliefs. My views, as well as the President's, in regards to politics consider the whole. I stand by my posting. Somewhere in the Holy Book it speaks of judging others. Perhaps you can explain how you are so confident in your assessment of another's intentions. Additionally, endorsing or instructing one to vote for a specific person or party is merely another ridiculous religious vehicle that contrues God's truth for man's own agenda. Your statement regarding the Democratic party as a whole further illuminates your personal prejudice. I don't recall God damning the sum of a group based on the actions of a few select people. Thank you for your input. Everyone is entitled to their subjective opinions. However, it seems slightly skewed and delusional. In the end, we must all account for our lives individually before God. Be blessed.

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    3. Glen, like you I whole heartedly agree that any president we as a nation elect does indeed work for us. Not just for some of us but for us as a whole. Clergy are to spread the good news about God and His kingdom, not to use the pulpit as a platform to advocate their personal opinions and views to those they are given the responsibility of shepherding. For example, personally I may or may not condone abortion but who am I to dictate to another what she may or may not do with her body. Just ask yourself honestly if it were outlawed right are you so naive to really think they would just stop happening? No! Women would resort once agiain into going to seedy places and risking their lives and freedom. Many toss the word abortion around like its just going to the doctors to have a routine checkup. Never having had to personally make such a difficult choice, I do believe the women that elected to make that decision did not do so lightly. I'm willing to bet they did not come out of that office just grinning from ear to ear. The resulting effects could be compared to PTSD that some carry with them forever. My Bible teaches me that only God can judge (...judge not, lest ye be judged), and in the end we are all held accountable for our own actions in this life. God does not judge collectively nor based on being a member of any particular political party, but on the life we as individuals have lived. Morality, in my opinion is a fundamental principal- beginning with honesty, being honest. I am not so short sighted as to think we are all honest all of the time, but I do have concerns when one can look you in the eyes and repeatedly and consistently just blatantly tell lies. I was tought when you tell one lie you only end up telling more lies to cover that lie...... so when or at what point does the truth come into play? This election has been so disgusting in the fact that truth, caring, and just day to day concerns for one another other have been completely overlooked. What happened to being one's brothers keeper? Or does that only apply when you have a lot and the color of your skin is the same?

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    4. Sylvia,
      The pulpit is a perfect place to remind Christians that in selecting to hire an employee to run our nation, we should no be selecting a person who will lead the country farther and farther away from God. And this is NOT just an opinion.
      No one wants to tell a woman what she can do with HER body, but we do want to tell her she should not be killing the separate body living in her.
      By your logic we shouldn’t have outlawed murder because people will murder anyway. Abortion should be outlawed - it is indeed murdering a child. If they want to go to risky places for abortions, then they suffer the consequences of their actions as do any other murderers.
      Most women who get abortions do indeed take the decision very lightly, because they have been brainwashed to believe they are just getting rid of “a blob of tissue.” If you read testimony after testimony about women who abort, and talk to them (as my wife has), you will find they often do it without bothering about any consequences just so they can be done with the inconvenience.
      Your statement about only God judging doesn’t explain what you mean; judging what? Can we judge a behavior to be wrong based on the Word of God? Yes we can - and indeed are called to do so!
      Your opinion of what morality is has nothing to do with the truth about what morality is. God is the standard for morality - not someone’s opinion.
      I have no idea what you mean about being “one’s brothers keeper,” since the only place in the Bible this comment is used is by Cain after murdering his brother.
      Perhaps you should study the Bible in context instead of grabbing passages to support your belief system.

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    5. Nicole,
      YOU are the one who is incorrect. Nor is morality founded on theories or religious beliefs. Morality is based on the standard of God’s word, whether you agree with it or not. It is a matter of absolute, objective truth as to right and wrong. Truth is truth regardless of your belief about it. You can stand by your posting but you are still in error.
      The Bible speaks about judging being wrong only insofar as judging another’s heart or unstated motives, or judging hypocritically. But many times it tells us to judge behaviors, to judge with righteous judgment, etc.
      My confidence in “another’s intentions” are based on what that person has publicly stated as his intentions, as well as based on his publicly stated belief system.
      So my statement about the Demokratic party is “personal prejudice?” NO it is not - it is factual based on the party’s stated positions. I don’t damn the people of the Demokratic party - I damn the agenda and party platform of the Demokratic party, as would God since it promotes all that is unholy. But if a person is a member of that party, then he must, by being a member, support the platform!
      For someone who is against “judging,” your whole comment is continually judging me!

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    6. Once again you're own statements support the point I made. Morality and religion are two separate things. Morality exists even in the absence of religion. Atheists are non-believers yet they still have morals. That sir is the truth. And as you stated, it remains truth regardless of your opinion.

      As far as your confidence in another's intentions, I do not recollect any member of the Democratic or Republican party plainly stating an intention to morally or fiscally destroy this nation. As such, your perception seems to have read between the lines somewhere. However, you are entitled to such regardless of the asinine presumptions. Characteristics projected on any group as a whole based upon the actions of a few select individuals are usually indicative of ignorance. Every Democrat does not adhere to or support every stance proclaimed by the party itself. Just as every Republican does not adhere to or support every stance of their party's agenda. Your deductive reasoning when applied to other subjects lends to its own faults. Many have perceptions of the American people as a whole. However, those traits do not apply when considering each American individually. Many feel that those imprisoned are rightfully punished. However, there are those that are incarcerated unjustly. Point being that assumptions must be reached at the individual level.

      In your original posting, you failed to differentiate the party from the platform. Please note that I did not pass judgment and state that you were right or wrong. I stated that your opinion seemed skewed. You, however, clearly judged me in your response leaving no need to read between the lines. Another judgment was made on your part when including the term "real" in regards to Pastors and Christians. If you interpreted my statements as judging you, please be reminded that the Bible says "judge not LEST YE BE JUDGED.

      It is our duty to follow God's law. However, it is not our right to condemn anothers actions even when we are aware of their digression from God's instruction. In the end God will separate the wheat from chaff. Until then we are to encourage each other's spiritual growth and attempt to lead them to Christ. This does not include damning them even when they may stray as we all fall short of the glory of God.

      I wish you and the remaining visitors to this site, a blessed day. I do not see the need to continue to respond to your postings, as each further solidifies that the religious principles I was taught were correct. The Bible's instruction is to be taken in its entirety. However, many select passages disregarding the entire context for application. I still have much growing to do in Christ. Yet the the Holy Spirit gives me discernment. In this, I am at peace.

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    7. I could not have said it better, Nicole. I do not under any circumstance aside from this instance answer blogs or postings as my experience has shown those I've encountered are written out of prejudices and biases equalling ignorance. I never once said I belonged to or was a member of any party. For you to assume...well, we know what they say about assuming. Opinions are like skin cells. Everybody has them. They are neither right nor wrong and everyone is entitled to their own. In reading your response, I feel you have much excess time on your hands. Are you a member of the 47%? And before you attempt to attack that statement, everyone is entitled to their own feelings.

      I retired from the medical field. I have seen first hand the difficulties of making the choice to have an abortion. I have witnessed the effects that this has caused after having had the procedure. How many times have you personally pondered this decision? I believe I would be correct in saying none.

      Before broadcasting your opinion on matters you clearly are a novice regarding, you may want to do a little research both in your Bible and elsewhere. Thankful that God holds all the power as self-appointed righteous individuals have disgraced the principles of Christianity. If we would remove ourselves and follow God as instructed, the public would have a better respect for "Christians". We are our brother's keeper. We are instructed to love our neighbor as ourselves. We are instructed to preach God's "good news". We are also instructed to "knock the sand off our feet" once we have fulfilled that responsibility. In plain terms, that means we do what we can to lead others to Christ and let them decide to accept or reject him. As I have fulfilled my duty in responding to your posting, I shall do as instructed and leave you in the wilderness. May the God you serve bless you.

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    8. Sylvia,

      I'm sorry you consider that what is written here is "written out of prejudices and biases equalling ignorance." I am sorry that you consider that you are discussing Jesus Christ with ignorant people unstudied in the bible.

      However, the godliness standards the Lord instructed us to have do delve into the moral aspects of our lives. No matter how "difficult" the decision is to have an abortion, (and I would HOPE that the mother ponders it heavily before she kills her baby!) the 'difficulty' of making the decision in no way excuses it. God said not to kill, not children or adults. Period. (Lev 18:21, Exodus 20:13).

      The standards of Godliness also delves into aspects of our lives concerning conversation also. We are taught to have gracious speech (Col 4:6) and to be gentle with one another.(Prov 15:4). I don't think it is quite fair to say that if one disagrees with your opinion (which is not biblically supported by the way) that we are in "the wilderness." Nor that are we prejudiced, biased or ignorant. The best way to get one's point across is to use scripture, because that is the final word.

      Thanks, and I am going to close comments for this thread.

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    9. Nicole,

      you said "Morality and religion are two separate things. Morality exists even in the absence of religion" and this is entirely incorrect. Though there are good people who can go through a life without murdering, for example, no one is good nor is there anyone who meets God's standards for holiness. We are totally depraved individuals from birth, thoroughly evil. The veneer of goodness is only a veneer. Push it enough and it comes out, and pretty easily too. There is no morality without Jesus, HE is the only Good there is.

      Verses reminding us that were sinners from birth (I.e immoral) Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:21, Matt 15:19, Genesis 5:3, Job 15:14, Job 25:4, Psalms 51:5...

      It is not self-righteous to re-state the obvious, that we're sinners and we need a Good and Holy resurrected Jesus to forgive us of our sins. It is not self-righteous to understand this fact and to point it out to others because that in turn gives us an opportunity to say that Jesus is the one who saves us from all that. It is Good News that His morals and His truth and His ways are perfect! And what a gift He gave us to forgive us our sins and allow us to travel in his ways with the aid of the Holy Spirit! That is good news indeed.

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