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The Pope is on twitter. He tweets things. Here are two religious thoughts he tweeted today.
Mary was a sinner, in need of a savior, just like the rest of us. (Luke 1:47). She died and went to heaven, and is awaiting her resurrection body, just like the rest of us. She is not queen of heaven nor is she the mother of the church. Praying to her is forbidden as it is forbidden to pray to the dead or commune with the dead. Catholics consider Mary a mediatrix, interceding for us to Jesus. This is the same as a "medium" and it is strictly forbidden.
And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.” (Luke 18:29-30)
And once again, the bible refutes the pope's comment: the bible tells us who our spiritual mother is: the heavenly Jerusalem.
But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. (Galatians 4:26).
Commentary: "Believers are children of the heavenly Jerusalem, the 'mother-city' of heaven". (J MacArthur). So you see, we are all set for mothers. Mary need not apply.
We have to "let" Him? What if we don't? Can we stop Him? Of course not.
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases. (Psalm 115:3)
I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. (Job 42:2)
Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand. (Proverbs 19:21)
Did you know that Catholics are taught that all redemption of mankind was up to Mary? Here is from a Catholic Apologetics site. The mediator they are talking about is Jesus.
Know your bible by reading it. This will allow us to be able to refute these comments when we come across them. Neither will you be confused, if you know what the bible actually says.
Read it today. It does a body-mind-soul-spirit good!
Mary was a sinner, in need of a savior, just like the rest of us. (Luke 1:47). She died and went to heaven, and is awaiting her resurrection body, just like the rest of us. She is not queen of heaven nor is she the mother of the church. Praying to her is forbidden as it is forbidden to pray to the dead or commune with the dead. Catholics consider Mary a mediatrix, interceding for us to Jesus. This is the same as a "medium" and it is strictly forbidden.
GotQuestions: Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly, God has declared that such things are not to be done.In addition, the bible says we have many mothers and none of us is an orphan!
And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.” (Luke 18:29-30)
And once again, the bible refutes the pope's comment: the bible tells us who our spiritual mother is: the heavenly Jerusalem.
But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. (Galatians 4:26).
Commentary: "Believers are children of the heavenly Jerusalem, the 'mother-city' of heaven". (J MacArthur). So you see, we are all set for mothers. Mary need not apply.
We have to "let" Him? What if we don't? Can we stop Him? Of course not.
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases. (Psalm 115:3)
I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. (Job 42:2)
Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand. (Proverbs 19:21)
Did you know that Catholics are taught that all redemption of mankind was up to Mary? Here is from a Catholic Apologetics site. The mediator they are talking about is Jesus.
God permitted the Redemption of mankind to depend on the free-will decision of a human being. Whether or not we would have a mediator was dependent on Mary’s "yes." Had there been no "yes" from Mary, there would have been no mediator.You can readily see that the above verses regarding God's sovereignty in His plans and purposes have no meaning for a Catholic, including Pope Francis.
Know your bible by reading it. This will allow us to be able to refute these comments when we come across them. Neither will you be confused, if you know what the bible actually says.
Read it today. It does a body-mind-soul-spirit good!
If Mary is not in Heaven, then where is the location of her body here on earth?
ReplyDeletewho says Mary is not in heaven?
DeleteMDK, answer the first question before we go on to your next one. Let's have one discussion at a time, and biblically based.
DeleteSince you say Mary is not in Heaven body and soul, where is her body??? Are you afraid of truth?
DeleteMDK, please copy/paste anyy statement from above that you claim I say she is not in heaven.
DeleteMDK, let me educate you, and any lurkers, as to what a straw man is. You are the perfect example.
DeleteThe Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. Here is the usual straw man method:
Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
In this case, MDK's distortion was to present that Prata claimed Mary was not in heaven, and belligerently argues from that false claim. Misrepresenting an argument makes it easier to attack.
The success of the straw man argument is that "you may be lured into clarifying what your position is not instead of talking about what your position is, and studies have shown that when you repeat a lie, even if you are repeating it to refute it, the repetition can reinforce the misinformation in the minds of some people (1) (2).
A second method the straw man argumentative person employs is to obfuscate. In this case, MDK sent 9 emails, many of which are on a different topic, refusing to answer the first. This is also called "muddying the waters."
A third typical straw man method is to resort to ad hominem attacks when the first two methods don't work. Ad hominem attacks are simply personal attacks, designed to raise the ire of the recipient so that the original poster won't notice the lack of substance in straw man's argument.
Unluckily for MDK, I am fairly emotionless, lol, and also I am thoroughly familiar with the tactic and saw immediately in the first question that he or she wasn't asking it in order to genuinely seek information so as to come to new knowledge (fair exchange of information on common, amicable ground), but instead was setting up a straw man for a mindless and pointless argument.
In MDK's case, his or her ad hominem attack is that I am "unable to handle one conversation" and I am "afraid of the truth".
Sigh.
Anyway, all of MDK's comments will now be deleted. We need not trouble ourselves with argumentative straw men, and we can have a perfectly clear conscience about it.
And that is the straw man.
1. Vedantum, S. “The Power of Political Misinformation.” The Washington Post, September 15, 2008, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402375.html (accessed October 22, 2010) -
2. http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/what-is-a-straw-man-argument?page=1#sthash.nINMZIPV.dpuf
Wow, Elizabeth! I am impressed with your explanation of the straw man! I've seen this tactic many times and never knew quite how to nail it down or stand up to it. Great blogpost on the pope's tweets... and it's so cool that I learned more than I bargained for when reading the replies! Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeletethanks Anonymous. The thing to remember about trolls and straw men is that they don't engage in conversation to share or learn. You can see that from the first statement, it was a warped and distorted "if...then." A person sincerely wanting to know more would have said something like "I'm not sure what you meant when you said Mary was awaiting her resurrection body. Can you explain more?"
DeleteBest thing to do is ignore. You can never win with a straw man, because they will either corrupt your witness by making you angry, or corrupt your reputation as they hammer the false proposition into the minds of the readers following the conversation. Ask politely once. Then ignore.
LOL, MDK later said in one of the emails that I am "deceitful" because I was controlling the comments (i.e. deleting his emails). That's another tactic, to try and make a moderator feel guilty for ... moderating, lol.
I said that I can have a clear conscience not allowing his foolery to see the light of day, because I have a goal and a purpose for this blog and all comments. To educate, edify, encourage, and teach. All to the glory of Jesus. Anything, or anyone, who sidetracks or corrupts that goal will not have his comments see the light of day. Period.
:) Thanks again, I'm glad there was a teachable moment in all this.
Classic. Elizabeth, you're so right about ignoring them--you really *can't* win with this kind of person, and YouTube has become a veritable petri dish for their species. This seems to be especially true for the pre-trib Rapture.
ReplyDeleteIf you scrape the bottom of that particular petri dish, you come up with things like this:
--The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine Lie Destroying Souls
--Pastor XXX Reveals Pre-Trib Rapture Deception
--Pre-Tribulation Rapture EXPOSED as a False Doctrine of Demons
--The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Destroyed in Seven Words!
--Post Tribulation Rapture--Disproving Pre-trib in 3 Steps!
-The Pre-Trib Rapture: PSYCHOSIS or SATANIC DECEPTION?!?!
And I didn't make these up.
Well, OK, except for that last one.
But it's strawmen galore, with most of the 97-pound weakling variety. I mean, there are strawmen, and then there are strawpunks, thrown out when one is pathetically trying to defend an indefensible position.
Like how the Rapture follows the Tribulation. Or like how Mary is our spiritual mother in some bizarre way.
I will admit though, I do still occasionally post a strategic comment on a YouTube straw-athon that I fully intend to be read and absorbed by those who may be following the thread.
So, let the Lord guide you in such matters. Don't be afraid to confront false doctrine, but remember this:
"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
(Matthew 10:16)
*Wise as serpents...*
Be aware of the strawman arguments, and know when to simply walk away.
"...and hamless as doves."
Know when to stand your ground as born-again Christians who know the Word, in fear and trembling.
Irony of all ironies... Catholics do not believe in pretrib rapture. They don't believe in a rapture at all.
DeleteAnything to steal hope, huh, hopeful_watcher. The Catholic Church clearly believes in the Second Coming, “a final trial,” and a “supreme religious deception . . . of the Antichrist” (Catechism of the Catholic Church [CCC], 675). They believe in a final resurrection, but not in a rapture at all, because they do not believe the Daniel 'pause' in the prophetic clock. They also do not believe in a Millennial kingdom.
DeleteHope that is properly placed can not be stolen.
DeleteRomans 8 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Anything less is another gospel.
So true! A shame how often the false teachers steal it. That was why Paul was writing to the Thessalonians in chapter 2, to reassure them in their alarm from what the false teacher had said. They were 'cast down", "troubled" "agitated" and "shaken" by the false doctrine.(2 Thess 2:1-5). That is what false teachers do. It worked then, and it works now. The problem with now, is that the undiscerning, or the new babes, or the weak, who ARE shaken in hope have few solid teachers these days to reassure them properly.
DeleteAnd this: 1 Timothy 2:5King James Version (KJV)
ReplyDelete5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
**No other mediators, or mediatrixes. I hope I spelled that right. Loved the post! Thanks Elizabeth!
Heather
Remind me, ever so gently, not to enter into an argument with you . . . ever. I apologize in advance. Yikes!
ReplyDeleteGreat post, Elizabeth.
Response:
ReplyDeleteGood thing that the one true God is a Father to the fatherless. Ps 68:5
told my husband about the pope's tweets: he replied, "he's catholic, isn't he?!" hahha -- good elementary explanation!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much Elizabeth for your explanation on the straw man. I've seen this tactic used and didn't really have a good understanding of what they were doing or how to deal with it. Love you dear sister.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome Kem. Love you too!
DeleteKeep in mind that straw men are not usually so obvious. Here is an example of a subtle one I deleted this morning. It was a comment related to an essay I'd written about the Courageous Oath (that went along with the movie) and I'd used verses to show that we should not commercialize nor make impertinent oaths. To be careful of what we're swearing to. Here is part of the person's comment:
"Discouraging reading other books outside of the Bible is foolish, and just shows that your views and knowledge are not to be trusted."
Of course I'd never said not to read other books outside of the bible, not anything of the sort, but there you go. Straw men argue from a false position. They plant a false seed tangentially related to the topic at hand, and hammer it home relentlessly.
The lie will *always* insinuate itself into the observer's mind, to fester and pollute. Avoid them, and if you can't avoid straw man arguments, delete or run away quickly. (Politely, of course)