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Part one: Making no distinction between Victorian channeling writers of yore and today's Christian authors
Part two: Walsch, Young, and Beth Moore: ungodly channelers all
Part 3: Walsch, Young, and Beth Moore: ungodly channelers all (Part 3)
I hope that the thoughts expressed here these last three essays have offered you food for thought and an area of discernment to look for when digesting 'Christian' books. I've spent the first two essays showing you how a person can wind up being used by the other side, and the third essay illustrating potential reasons why. Now in this conclusion I want to speak of pride.
Pride in my opinion is the the root cause of sin. Satan fell due to pride. What happened to Satan? Ezekiel recorded “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor” (Ezekiel 28:17). Isaiah explains that satan fell because he thought he was better than God. Isaiah 14: 12-15 states -- "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."
"An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin." (Proverbs 21:4)
I want to bring your attention to two statements from writers I've been showing you, Beth Moore and Neale Donald Walsch. They are really blasphemous, in my opinion, and need to be examined thoughtfully against what the bible says.
Neale Donald Walsch has said: "In the spring of 1992...an extraordinary phenomenon occurred in my life. God began talking with you. Through me."
Let's pull that apart for a minute. God is speaking to the world through Walsch. However, the bible says, "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son," (Hebrews 1:1a). "Has spoken" is an ongoing past tense. So now one must decide whether God is speaking only through Jesus in the Word, or is He speaking to the world through Jesus AND Walsch, or is He speaking only through Walsch. If you decide that God can speak to the world through Jesus AND Walsch, that means Walsch is elevated to a position of equality with Jesus. If you believe God is speaking to the world through Walsch alone, it means God has supplanted Jesus as the verbalizer of the faith. In some way, you must reconcile what Walsch has said with the Hebrews verse.
"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock." (Mt 7:24)
If you accept that God is speaking through Walsch, then do we place our house on the rock of Walsch's words?
Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." (Mark 13:31) So does that mean that Walsch's words will not pass away, either?
We can go on here, but I think by now you see the extreme pridefulness of what Walsch has said, and that it cannot be reconciled with the Word. Therefore avoid the books Conversations with God.
In the preface to Beth Moore's book When Godly People do Ungodly Things Moore said on page xi,--
If she didn't write the book, the rocks and stones would cry out?? Here is the biblical reference: "Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!” I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.” (Luke 19:39-40). Barnes Notes explains what is happening in the context of that scene-
"The stones would ...cry out - It is "proper" that they should celebrate my coming. Their acclamations "ought" not to be suppressed. So joyful is the event which they celebrate - the coming of the Messiah - that it is not fit that I should attempt to impose silence on them."
Matthew Henry's Commentary explains:
"Whether men praise Christ or no he will, and shall, and must be praised (v. 40): If these should hold their peace, and not speak the praises of the Messiah's kingdom, the stones would immediately cry out, rather than that Christ should not be praised."
So Moore is saying that her book is so important that all of creation would cry out if she didn't write it. That is what she is saying. And further, she is putting herself as an equal to the Apostles who were praising JESUS at that time. Moore's pride in elevating her book to the level of importance akin to joy expressed at the arrival of the Messiah illustrates a prideful heart. We can go on here, but I think by now you see the extreme pridefulness of what Moore has said, and that it cannot be reconciled with the Word. Therefore avoid Beth Moore's books.
Now, pride is dastardly, It is something that the prideful person may not even detect as a sin. I mean, sexual sin is obvious. If you are having an affair, you know you are sinning. But pride...that one is sneaky.
Gotquestions.org explains God's view of pride like this:
"Psalm 10:4 explains that the proud are so consumed with themselves that their thoughts are far from God: “In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God.” This kind of haughty pride is the opposite of the spirit of humility that God seeks: “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:3). The “poor in spirit” are those who recognize their utter spiritual bankruptcy and their inability to come to God aside from His divine grace."
Check yourself for pride. It is a sly, sneaky sin and it besets us before we know it. I did a repentance check myself this morning, asking the Lord to reveal to me any and all pride I have and to remove it whilst giving me a humble heart. I don't want to be proud, not even for a moment. It is way too easy to believe your own press clippings, and Walsch and Moore among others, have lost their way detouring along the prideful path. Pray for them that the light will guide them back. I want for all Christians to gain discernment in matters such as books, movies, doctrines, tracts and all other things purporting to be biblical through your own study, prayer, and seeking the Spirit's guidance. We need pure food these days, and pride is a dish best left to the garbage heap.
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Part two: Walsch, Young, and Beth Moore: ungodly channelers all
Part 3: Walsch, Young, and Beth Moore: ungodly channelers all (Part 3)
I hope that the thoughts expressed here these last three essays have offered you food for thought and an area of discernment to look for when digesting 'Christian' books. I've spent the first two essays showing you how a person can wind up being used by the other side, and the third essay illustrating potential reasons why. Now in this conclusion I want to speak of pride.
Pride in my opinion is the the root cause of sin. Satan fell due to pride. What happened to Satan? Ezekiel recorded “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor” (Ezekiel 28:17). Isaiah explains that satan fell because he thought he was better than God. Isaiah 14: 12-15 states -- "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."
"An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin." (Proverbs 21:4)
I want to bring your attention to two statements from writers I've been showing you, Beth Moore and Neale Donald Walsch. They are really blasphemous, in my opinion, and need to be examined thoughtfully against what the bible says.
Neale Donald Walsch has said: "In the spring of 1992...an extraordinary phenomenon occurred in my life. God began talking with you. Through me."
Let's pull that apart for a minute. God is speaking to the world through Walsch. However, the bible says, "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son," (Hebrews 1:1a). "Has spoken" is an ongoing past tense. So now one must decide whether God is speaking only through Jesus in the Word, or is He speaking to the world through Jesus AND Walsch, or is He speaking only through Walsch. If you decide that God can speak to the world through Jesus AND Walsch, that means Walsch is elevated to a position of equality with Jesus. If you believe God is speaking to the world through Walsch alone, it means God has supplanted Jesus as the verbalizer of the faith. In some way, you must reconcile what Walsch has said with the Hebrews verse.
"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock." (Mt 7:24)
If you accept that God is speaking through Walsch, then do we place our house on the rock of Walsch's words?
Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." (Mark 13:31) So does that mean that Walsch's words will not pass away, either?
We can go on here, but I think by now you see the extreme pridefulness of what Walsch has said, and that it cannot be reconciled with the Word. Therefore avoid the books Conversations with God.
In the preface to Beth Moore's book When Godly People do Ungodly Things Moore said on page xi,--
If she didn't write the book, the rocks and stones would cry out?? Here is the biblical reference: "Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!” I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.” (Luke 19:39-40). Barnes Notes explains what is happening in the context of that scene-
"The stones would ...cry out - It is "proper" that they should celebrate my coming. Their acclamations "ought" not to be suppressed. So joyful is the event which they celebrate - the coming of the Messiah - that it is not fit that I should attempt to impose silence on them."
Matthew Henry's Commentary explains:
"Whether men praise Christ or no he will, and shall, and must be praised (v. 40): If these should hold their peace, and not speak the praises of the Messiah's kingdom, the stones would immediately cry out, rather than that Christ should not be praised."
So Moore is saying that her book is so important that all of creation would cry out if she didn't write it. That is what she is saying. And further, she is putting herself as an equal to the Apostles who were praising JESUS at that time. Moore's pride in elevating her book to the level of importance akin to joy expressed at the arrival of the Messiah illustrates a prideful heart. We can go on here, but I think by now you see the extreme pridefulness of what Moore has said, and that it cannot be reconciled with the Word. Therefore avoid Beth Moore's books.
Now, pride is dastardly, It is something that the prideful person may not even detect as a sin. I mean, sexual sin is obvious. If you are having an affair, you know you are sinning. But pride...that one is sneaky.
Gotquestions.org explains God's view of pride like this:
"Psalm 10:4 explains that the proud are so consumed with themselves that their thoughts are far from God: “In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God.” This kind of haughty pride is the opposite of the spirit of humility that God seeks: “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:3). The “poor in spirit” are those who recognize their utter spiritual bankruptcy and their inability to come to God aside from His divine grace."
Check yourself for pride. It is a sly, sneaky sin and it besets us before we know it. I did a repentance check myself this morning, asking the Lord to reveal to me any and all pride I have and to remove it whilst giving me a humble heart. I don't want to be proud, not even for a moment. It is way too easy to believe your own press clippings, and Walsch and Moore among others, have lost their way detouring along the prideful path. Pray for them that the light will guide them back. I want for all Christians to gain discernment in matters such as books, movies, doctrines, tracts and all other things purporting to be biblical through your own study, prayer, and seeking the Spirit's guidance. We need pure food these days, and pride is a dish best left to the garbage heap.
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Elizabeth
ReplyDeleteThis is an awesome series of posts! So needful in this day where discernment is even more rare than common sense. We are truly in perilous times but God gives wisdom and discernment to those who humbly ask. Thank you for taking a stand.
May God bless your obedience.
LM
Hmmm - questions. Does God speak through John MacArthur? Does God speak through any of the thousands of faithful preachers and teachers of the Word of God every Sunday morning when they stand in their pulpits or in front of their classes? Does God speak through you or through me when we share the gospel with someone and that person becomes a Believer in Jesus Christ? If God is not speaking through you or me, then *I* am doing the work of the Holy Spirit all by myself instead of Him using and speaking through me??
ReplyDeleteCan you define exactly what you mean by "speak through"? Why do we have the preaching of the Word if God is not speaking through the preacher? Everyone could just sit at home and read their Bible in private if God does not speak through the preacher. I think we need to understand what the work of the Holy Spirit really is.
I am not in disagreement with you over these two people, but I think this section is overly broad. God uses means to accomplish His will and most often those means are through the preaching/teaching of the Word. I come away from this article thinking that I don't have to listen to anyone other than myself and what I happen to think the Word of God is saying when I read it.
I press this because of family members who ended up in a cult group. They threw away all of their books except the Bible and the group determined that they were the only ones who were interpreting the Bible correctly. All of the writings of old, those that have stood the test of time for the truth that was written about the Word of God - thrown into the fire. Of course, current preachers were also condemned to hell, no matter who they were.
Great discernment is needed and is woefully lacking within the church today. I even need discernment reading your blog! To trust you without that discernment could lead us both down a path to distruction because, as you wrote, pride is very sly and sneaky and tends to creep in just when we least expect it. You in your blog writing, me in my comments, you in your reaction to the comments received, and so forth.
Anonymous, In part 3 of the series, John MacArthur explained in his own words how the Holy Spirit uses a person. In the sermon from this week Steve Hadley explained the same thing. ("9/18/2011 'The Church, Men, and Women", http://harvestreno.org/messages.asp)
ReplyDeleteThe only true writings that we should follow the bible. It is good to read commentaries and histories but to take as the words that we follow the only ones that are absolute are the biblical words. As for being the only arbiter of interpreting them correctly, that is a problem of pride. The spirit illuminates truth. (http://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-illumination.html)
The answer is that God speaks to us through His son. Hebrews 1:1-2. He speaks to us through His Son, that is the Word. Period.
"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." Heb 1:1-2
I don't want this section to be overly broad I want it to be overly narrow: God speaks to us through His Son, (The Word) that is the only way He speaks. In the past He spoke in many ways and also through the prophets, but the many ways and the prophets are done. That is what the bible says.
Preachers teach us what is in the bible. MacArthur has stated that over and over that he is merely a teacher of the word, showing us what is there. Other preachers that are humble and normal say the same thing. The answer is that God speaks through His Son, that is what He told us and that is what we have to believe if we are to believe God at all.
Proverbs 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." A simple proverb. So, we sharpen each other. By our questions, by our answers.
ReplyDeleteMy next question for you - where is the work of the Holy Spirit in this? God speaks/spoke through His Son - complete agreement with this truth. However, Jesus Christ is not standing here in front of me, opening His mouth and speaking literal words I can hear with my physical ears. I can open my Bible and read it all day long and I will only be reading words printed on a page, similar to the words you are reading right now in your comment section. There is no difference at all - UNTIL the Holy Spirit opens the heart and mind of the person reading the Bible. THEN understanding happens. This is why so many unbelieviers can read the Bible, sometimes several times, and never come to know Jesus Christ as their Savior.
A preacher stands in front of his congregation, and if he is a Godly preacher, he will teach his people what the Spirit has shown him during his hours of study and prayer over the past days. He can speak until he is blue in the face and have absolutely no response within the congregation UNLESS the Holy Spirit opens the hearts and minds of the people listening. The Spirit may open understanding in one person's heart differently from another's. The Word is the same, the teaching is the same, but the application to the person's heart and life may be different.
It is just a suggestion, but I think you could add another section to this series - what is the work of the Holy Spirit in teaching the Word of God.
John 17: 7 "But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
12 I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you."
Loved your FOUR part series on these writers. I think some of the confusion in the comments have arisen because people did not read all FOUR parts of your blog.
ReplyDeleteYou weren't ever saying anything about preacher or witnessing to our neighbors. Just authors who have been "given" their books by a spirit.
I've joined your blog and will come back for more later. God bless your efforts! BTW - this makes my little blog look like the work of a pre-schooler. I'm going to have to step up my game :-o
I really enjoyed your series, thank you so much. I have been praying about discernment with regards to books about God and the Bible and this really helped me. Do you have any recommendations on faithful, God fearing, authentic authors. I am a new Christian and I could really use some direction when it comes to looking for preachers and authors. Thank you for the time you spent on this series. Have a blessed day. Tara.
ReplyDeleteHi Elizabeth.
ReplyDeleteI have been gleaning from your blog posts for a few months now. I have not read the books you are warning of in this blog series, many friends have read them and as they tell me about it, I know they are false.
I have done one Beth Moore study, but have really never been a fan. She did mention in the video that she was getting some of her stuff from a commentary or seminary professor. I didn't learn much from the study and cannot remember what it was.
I am coming out of some heavy Keswick thinking, but have lingering questions regarding some of the things I'm reading. I cannot really explain the meaning of, "Let go and let God." I have read and listened to Andy Naselli's dissertation, but I cannot seem to fully understand what it means. I always attributed it to, "Cease striving and know that I am God."
I'm wondering if Beth Moore is heavy Keswick/mystical thinking and now a full out charismatic?
I do get that she is saying some pretty "out there" stuff.
I am in a church where almost everyone hears "Jesus" speaking to them in some shape or form. It has caused me over the past couple of years to research some of these things through the light of Scripture. I am learning a lot.
I used to write my prayers, it kept me focused and slowed me down to really spend time praying. I was told, and believed (through Scripture, I thought) that prayer is communication. I reasoned that if prayer is communication, then why don't I ask God to answer me and wait for an answer (in my heart). It is a "two way conversation" I thought. I did this for some time. I never heard a voice, the pen in my hand never took control, I just asked God a question and waited for an answer. Not every time would I "hear in my heart" an answer, but sometimes a thought would come to my mind. I no longer do this -- I know this is not praying, but I did do it for a season of time thinking this was communication with God. It never occurred to me at the time that I was not believing that the written word of God was sufficient, in all things.
So, this series and the Gnostics series has been helpful for me. The Language of God series in my next read.
I know you are incredibly busy and this post is from another year, but I hope you can help me understand some things, with some free time (ha!) that you may have.
My questions:
Who places these thoughts in our minds when we think it is God? Is it ourselves? Demons?
If it is demonic, how is it the demons can place thoughts in our minds, but the Holy Spirit does not? (Maybe my idea of spiritual warfare is warped as well.) Is it because we have the written Word, the Holy Spirit speaks only through his word, but demons speak to our minds? Or do demons speak at all to the believer? Do they speak through unbelievers, possession?
One time I was in a desperate time, I called out the Lord, for help and a verse of Scripture came to mind, is this the Holy Spirit "speaking to us" or "laying it" on our
heart?
You say, "I did a repentance check myself this morning, asking the Lord to reveal to me any and all pride I have and to remove it whilst giving me a humble heart."
"Reveal to me" -- How does he reveal this to you? Is it a thought or a remembrance of a specific sin?
These are just a few of the questions on my mind as I read about how God speaks to us today.
Thanks for listening and I hope you can lead me to some resources or thoughts of your own, as you get the time.
Hi Elizabeth,
DeleteThanks for reading and writing. Isn't ti funny, I just wrote a piece this week on 'Let Go and Let God".
http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2014/03/sayings-and-mottos-that-sound-pious-but.html
It's just my own thoughts on the phrase, with a bit of the history and background, so be discerning and test me against the bible.
"Hearing" from Jesus is all the rage now. It seems like everyone and their brother has had a visit or an audible voice from Jesus telling them something directly. However Jesus does not speak to us except thru the word.
When I say I ask the Holy Spirit to reveal something, it is through the Word. For example, this week I was listening to a Steve Lawson sermon on Philippians, and he was preaching on love. The Holy spirit used the verses to convict my heart that I was not loving my enemies. I had prayed before for help in a personal situation and He used this sermon on that verse to convict me as to the fact that this was the root of the problem.
There is a very fine line between hearing a voice or having it put on your heart, and having the Spirit illuminate scriptural truth to us. After all, He does lead us, He does guide us, He does convict us. He is active in our lives, but he is active though the Word, not signs, or impressions or emotions or omens. He will bring scripture to mind (Ephesians 1:17-18).
Here is a good sermon on The Holy Spirit as IIluminator
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/80-410
Here is an essay on the biblical doctrine of Illumination (how the Spirit reveals truth to us from the word)
http://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-illumination.html
let me know if these dont' hep answer your questions. I'll be glad to do what I can to point you in the right direction. Above all, pray for wisdom, He will deliver it (James 1:5-6)