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By Elizabeth Prata
Previous essays on my reaction, here:
Beth Moore: reactions part 1, The Women
Beth Moore: reactions part 2, The Music
Beth Moore: part 3a: The Teaching
Beth Moore: reactions part 3b: The Teaching
You know, it might be nice to be in a helps ministry. Everyone loves to see you coming. You're filling a need. You're bringing cake. There is an immediate satisfaction of a product of the help one can see (a cleaned house for an invalid, a casserole simmering for a bereaved family).
When in an exhortation ministry usually no one likes to see you coming. You have to say some unpleasant things sometimes. You have to challenge the status quo, and no one likes that. It makes people angry and it makes them uncomfortable.
But what does the Bible say? Titus 1:9 says church elders must be "holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict." Refute. Refute! Jude 1:3 says "Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints." Contend defined in the Greek is "to struggle with skill and commitment in opposing whatever is not of faith (God's persuasion)." Contend. Contend!
As we left the arena at the first session's conclusion I cried but not in joy. It was in repentance, asking forgiveness for this preaching." But examining everything as we are instructed to do is a ceaseless activity. You're never set. You're never done. No matter how peeved you are, you have to let that burn off and then set about examining if there is truth to the charge.
So what do we think that satan's subtlety looks like? (Genesis 3:1). It's easy to say that Harold Camping was wrong but harder to say where exactly the error is in Beth Moore's stuff. But the Bible says satan is the most subtle creature on earth. Subtlety defined is "fine or delicate in meaning or intent; difficult to perceive or understand." It is going to take a lot of effort, prayer and open ears and eyes to catch it.
What do we think false doctrine acts like? It doesn't burst in, it creeps. (Jude 1:4). We'd notice if a bear stormed into our campsite. We do not notice when a snake curls up under our pillow. We can't tell if a scorpion is slumbering in the shoe. They creep. They may go undetected for a long time, hiding there in your tent.
What do we think false doctrine will sound like? A Jerry Springer? With crashing chairs and loud yells and fights sprawling all over the stage? You'd want to get out of there pretty fast. "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires..." I don't know about you but when someone is tickling me, I don't want them to stop. Really deadly false doctrine will sound good and you'll want to let it continue.
False doctrine is going to come pretty close to the real thing. Consider what Satan said to Eve when tempting her with the fruit: (Gen 3:4-5)
"And the serpent said unto the woman,
--Ye shall not surely die: (half right. Flesh is alive, spirit is dead, he only told half the story)
--For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, (true)
--and ye shall be as gods, (false)
--knowing good and evil." (true, but forgot to mention the penalty)
We HAVE TO "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thess 5:21). "The meaning here is, that they were carefully to examine everything proposed for their belief. They were not to receive it on trust; to take it on assertion; to believe it because it was urged with vehemence, zeal, or plausibility", says Barnes Notes. Moore certainly is full of zeal. She urges with vehemence. She is quite plausible. But I had to prove her and she failed the test. Now my job is to share my proofs with the body.
Now when we have a favorite teacher we get angry when someone says that their teaching contains false things. We might reject that assertion out of hand. We might reject that friend out of hand. As the person on the exhorting end of things, we might hold our exhortation because we do not want to make a friend mad. I was certainly not happy that I had to be the naysayer. Here my friend was, in the thrall of an emotional and what she felt was an uplifting evening, and I threw cold water all over her head. That's what I mean when I say it is not an easy thing to contend and exhort. But we are called to defend the truth as Jesus revealed it to us, and we must obey the Spirit when He prompts us to do the unpleasant exhortations.
Sailing requires almost constant course corrections. The wind from above will push you off course. The current from below will push you off course. You must pay constant attention if you want to arrive in port safely. You keep a weather eye for clouds. You stay away from pirates. Now, the rocks are easy to spot and you can avoid those. But the underwater reefs are not easy to spot. The chart tells you where they are but if you don't check the chart, or get off course through inattention, or failure to constantly check the compass, you can crack the bottom of your boat so fast that you won't know what happened to you.
Catching false doctrines is like sailing. You have to be alert to the smallest of course corrections because before you know it you're off course. It doesn't happen right away. It is the accumulation of failures to correct that sends you up on the rocks. We're told that this will happen, falsity will creep in:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" (1 Timothy 4:1)
"Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming." (Eph 4:14). Notice the language here, 'cunning', 'crafty', 'deceitful' 'schemes'. In other words- Hard. To. Spot.
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple [innocent, unsuspecting]." (Romans 16:17-18)
Proclaiming error is not easy when it's about someone who is popular, embedded, and sounds so appealing and gospel-y. But we have to take the risk we will offend someone when we exhort in love and gentleness. It is what contending means. The Bible says that the infants are tossed by every wind of doctrine but as we exercise our faith through prayer, corporate worship, Bible study and in the active parts of faith through discerning, contending and refuting, we soon become more mature. "He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit." Do not fear! The living water will keep your leaves green.
He is ALL GLORY, He is the treasure upon which we set our eyes. He is so exalted, the very courts of praise rock with the living angels who proclaim HOLY HOLY HOLY is He! His holiness should not be besmirched by Bible teachers who put man in the center and talk about how the relationship is reciprocal. "Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.' (Psalms 145:3)
Previous essays on my reaction, here:
Beth Moore: reactions part 1, The Women
Beth Moore: reactions part 2, The Music
Beth Moore: part 3a: The Teaching
Beth Moore: reactions part 3b: The Teaching
You know, it might be nice to be in a helps ministry. Everyone loves to see you coming. You're filling a need. You're bringing cake. There is an immediate satisfaction of a product of the help one can see (a cleaned house for an invalid, a casserole simmering for a bereaved family).
When in an exhortation ministry usually no one likes to see you coming. You have to say some unpleasant things sometimes. You have to challenge the status quo, and no one likes that. It makes people angry and it makes them uncomfortable.
But what does the Bible say? Titus 1:9 says church elders must be "holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict." Refute. Refute! Jude 1:3 says "Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints." Contend defined in the Greek is "to struggle with skill and commitment in opposing whatever is not of faith (God's persuasion)." Contend. Contend!
As we left the arena at the first session's conclusion I cried but not in joy. It was in repentance, asking forgiveness for this preaching." But examining everything as we are instructed to do is a ceaseless activity. You're never set. You're never done. No matter how peeved you are, you have to let that burn off and then set about examining if there is truth to the charge.
So what do we think that satan's subtlety looks like? (Genesis 3:1). It's easy to say that Harold Camping was wrong but harder to say where exactly the error is in Beth Moore's stuff. But the Bible says satan is the most subtle creature on earth. Subtlety defined is "fine or delicate in meaning or intent; difficult to perceive or understand." It is going to take a lot of effort, prayer and open ears and eyes to catch it.
What do we think false doctrine acts like? It doesn't burst in, it creeps. (Jude 1:4). We'd notice if a bear stormed into our campsite. We do not notice when a snake curls up under our pillow. We can't tell if a scorpion is slumbering in the shoe. They creep. They may go undetected for a long time, hiding there in your tent.
What do we think false doctrine will sound like? A Jerry Springer? With crashing chairs and loud yells and fights sprawling all over the stage? You'd want to get out of there pretty fast. "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires..." I don't know about you but when someone is tickling me, I don't want them to stop. Really deadly false doctrine will sound good and you'll want to let it continue.
False doctrine is going to come pretty close to the real thing. Consider what Satan said to Eve when tempting her with the fruit: (Gen 3:4-5)
"And the serpent said unto the woman,
--Ye shall not surely die: (half right. Flesh is alive, spirit is dead, he only told half the story)
--For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, (true)
--and ye shall be as gods, (false)
--knowing good and evil." (true, but forgot to mention the penalty)
We HAVE TO "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thess 5:21). "The meaning here is, that they were carefully to examine everything proposed for their belief. They were not to receive it on trust; to take it on assertion; to believe it because it was urged with vehemence, zeal, or plausibility", says Barnes Notes. Moore certainly is full of zeal. She urges with vehemence. She is quite plausible. But I had to prove her and she failed the test. Now my job is to share my proofs with the body.
Now when we have a favorite teacher we get angry when someone says that their teaching contains false things. We might reject that assertion out of hand. We might reject that friend out of hand. As the person on the exhorting end of things, we might hold our exhortation because we do not want to make a friend mad. I was certainly not happy that I had to be the naysayer. Here my friend was, in the thrall of an emotional and what she felt was an uplifting evening, and I threw cold water all over her head. That's what I mean when I say it is not an easy thing to contend and exhort. But we are called to defend the truth as Jesus revealed it to us, and we must obey the Spirit when He prompts us to do the unpleasant exhortations.
Sailing requires almost constant course corrections. The wind from above will push you off course. The current from below will push you off course. You must pay constant attention if you want to arrive in port safely. You keep a weather eye for clouds. You stay away from pirates. Now, the rocks are easy to spot and you can avoid those. But the underwater reefs are not easy to spot. The chart tells you where they are but if you don't check the chart, or get off course through inattention, or failure to constantly check the compass, you can crack the bottom of your boat so fast that you won't know what happened to you.
Catching false doctrines is like sailing. You have to be alert to the smallest of course corrections because before you know it you're off course. It doesn't happen right away. It is the accumulation of failures to correct that sends you up on the rocks. We're told that this will happen, falsity will creep in:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" (1 Timothy 4:1)
"Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming." (Eph 4:14). Notice the language here, 'cunning', 'crafty', 'deceitful' 'schemes'. In other words- Hard. To. Spot.
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple [innocent, unsuspecting]." (Romans 16:17-18)
Proclaiming error is not easy when it's about someone who is popular, embedded, and sounds so appealing and gospel-y. But we have to take the risk we will offend someone when we exhort in love and gentleness. It is what contending means. The Bible says that the infants are tossed by every wind of doctrine but as we exercise our faith through prayer, corporate worship, Bible study and in the active parts of faith through discerning, contending and refuting, we soon become more mature. "He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit." Do not fear! The living water will keep your leaves green.
He is ALL GLORY, He is the treasure upon which we set our eyes. He is so exalted, the very courts of praise rock with the living angels who proclaim HOLY HOLY HOLY is He! His holiness should not be besmirched by Bible teachers who put man in the center and talk about how the relationship is reciprocal. "Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.' (Psalms 145:3)
Comments
Exposing a lie and telling the truth is not easy and offends many but when done in a loving, gentle, wise way, it is like pouring water down a parched throat. At first it just runs over and down the chin but as the tongue softens the water goes into the mouth and down the throat and quenches.
ReplyDeleteI think you have done an amazing job and I have learned lots from you. How to thoroughly research and find hidden stuff.
The first commandment is to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. Matthew 22:37. If we keep God in this number one spot everything else will fall into place.
Thank you for all your hard work! :)
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Thank you for your insight that we might all become discerning. The Holy Spirit has been doing it for me once I started reading the Bible. It's a red flag to me when people are in awe of the teacher instead of The Word.
ReplyDeleteThank you for researching and being open to post. Some false doctrines are easy to spot and know almost right away what you are reading/hearing is not correct. Some take really comparing more to God's word. Those false can be so so close to the truth yet so far from the truth as you have pointed out. May the Holy Spirit guide us more in what we read and hear!! May our own words stay lined up with God's word!
ReplyDeleteWolves in sheeps clothing means they will LOOK like sheep. You gotta getclose to examine them snd see the teeth. Which you did!
ReplyDeleteA very wise pastor who would grace our Christian bookstore store made a remarkable statement several years ago that has stayed with me. He asked “Craig, what is the best lie?” Trying to come up with an intelligent answer I said something like “well I suppose it’s the one that does the most damage” He graciously replied “you’re close but - it’s the one with the most truth in it!”
ReplyDeleteWe Christians (myself included) when we hear a truth run after it, want to hear more, want to join the club, want affirmation of our own beliefs from others – especially from those we look up to. Instead we should place everything being said and taught against the Word. Sola Scriptura (scripture alone) was one of the battle cries during the reformation and sadly most denominations today favor “contemporary understanding and interpretation” and want to distance themselves from any doctrine that believes in the inerrancy of the Word.
I agree, Craig. Well said. A lie wrapped in truth inside the church is especially devastating to the church. I'm praying for discernment within the body, especially in America.
ReplyDeleteI seriously had to look up a video to even know who this teacher was you have written so much about... Although I am not familiar with her, I am familiar with the gobs of other teachers like her who frequent TV and conferences and made oodles of money off of people ungrounded in the Word of God.
ReplyDeleteIt seems these are people who are "rich and famous" not the true teachers of the word.
Jimbo, me too. When I started looking, I was astounded at the level of embeddedness within the conservative Christian culture she has attained, and the level of permeation with her books, studies, television teachings, and videos. She presents a serious problem to the Christian woman today, and her popularity is going to make my little voice sound tiny in the mighty wind that is her false tsunami. But the Spirit is powerful and I trust that He will take what He led me to see and understand, and will convict hearts with the truth that Beth Moore's teachings are riddled with legalism, error, and self-centeredness.
ReplyDeleteWell, you have an excellent summation.
ReplyDeleteThe response your received from your bus companion is much like I've received for every article I've done on Beth. The comment strings for those are longer than for any other subject I've done, and there is a lot of anger. On top of those comments, I've gotten twice as much e-mails with some of the most bitter, angry, and downright mean responses for "touching the Lord's anointed." People turn off all objectivity when it comes to their favorite teachers. G. Richard Fisher of PFO calls it, "deception by investment."
Thanks for your excellent report. It's a keeper for future reference.
I thought this was a really interesting read, but I am greatly disappointed. I have completed many bible studies, both by Beth Moore and others. I was at this Beth Moore conference, and again, I've gone to others like Women of Faith, etc. I am disappointed that you would tear apart the conference like this and have so much to complain about. As Christians, we are not to judge others. Regardless of how they worship, with hymns or rock music, or whether we agree with how they present Scriptures. What she presented was straight out of the bible. Of course it's open to some minor interpretations, but church pastors do the same thing. If you were that conflicted about attending the conference, you should not have gone back Saturday. And I would definitely have prayed about it. I attended with over 30 women from several different churches and not one of them had anything negative to say.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment. I had hoped by sharing the definition of exegesis and eisegesis that we can understand that teachers can use scriptures "straight out of the bible' poorly or incorrectly.
I am not happy to 'tear apart' the conference but I am more than happy to expose error that puts women at risk, denigrates the Lord, or diminishes His glory. By your definition, if we should not tear apart anything, then Jesus was in error to speak so harshly to the Pharisees. They were applying their precepts straight out of the bible, too. Paul should not tear apart anything. Peter should not tear apart anything. Jude should not tear apart anything. But we DO tear apart false doctrines and expose them. Paul said to us that in the last days: "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."
What valuable information our spiritual forefathers gave us! What terrific advice and warnings! We have to heed them, we must.
I disagree that we "are not to judge others", because the story doesn't end there. (Mt 7:1-5) We are not to judge others without first examining ourselves. The fourth verse after the one you referred to says "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." How else are we to judge if the word is being handled rightly unless we judge? It simply means we make assessments as to the veracity of the lessons we are receiving.
I am also sorry again, I thought I had stated the process I had gone through to arrive at the conference and discerned the results: researching Mrs Moore, watching her, applying the scriptures, prayer, and objectivity, with even more bible application.
I *was* conflicted about going. I didn't want to sit through 6 hours of false teaching- but I attended in obedience to the Holy Spirit in order so He could use me to make this exhortation.
Elizabeth, you DID state, and repeatedly, the prayer you had, the intense preparation you made, and the fact that you hoped you were wrong. You found error, and exposed it, which is right and just.
ReplyDeleteThe difficulty here is the subtlety of Beth Moore and her acceptance by the larger Christian community. It does take maturity and discernment to be able to sort through it all. I think someone hit the nail on the head with the most dangerous lie is the one that has some truth mixed in. Beth is likeable, entertaining (to some) and attractive. She does open the bible and use scripture. People want to like and trust her. Their church probably has alot of her materials in the library. They teach her studies. Every Christian bookstore and even Walmart has Beth's books prominently displayed. This is extremely confusing to an earnest Christian. Who to believe?
ReplyDeleteThank you for this great expose. I pray that alot of women and church leaders will take the time to read it.
I have some questions for those who find fault with this series on Beth Moore. 1) If you are "disappointed that you would tear apart the conference" I want to ask you: What is your greatest concern? Is it that Jesus Christ is exalted and glorified? Is it to make sure that biblical truth is taught clearly and without error so that Christians will be built up and unbelievers saved? Or do you have another concern? 2) If you think that as Christians we are not to judge others. Then what do you do with this scripture: John 7:24? Have you thought through what the word 'judge' means? True, we do not judge in terms of whether someone is saved or not. BUT we must judge their teachings. We are not to believe everything are we? 3) Regarding the loud music and lights: What is your greatest concern here? Why is it that those who enjoy loud music and strobe lighting with their "worship" look down their noses upon those who find this very uncomfortable? What if you found it physically/spiritually/emotionally uncomfortable? Did you ever spend time in nightclubs as an unsaved person? Well, I did and it grieves me to go to a Christian conference or church service and be blasted with loud music and strobe lights, just like a pagan nightclub. Do you ever scratch your head and wonder how we Christians are different from the world? Aren't we meant to be? See Jesus' words in Matthew 5:13. 4) What is the purpose of music? Are we trying to appeal to the flesh or the spirit with it? 5) You went and so did several other people and saw nothing wrong. Ok, what do you do with this passage: Matthew 7:13-14? In fact, it might be good to spend some time in Matthew chapter 7 and really think through what Jesus is saying here. Note the distinctions He makes between judging wrongly and judging fruit (teaching). Note that He draws a line between what is true and good and what is false. Jesus Christ also makes it very clear that some will think that they are Christians and will find out they are not - when it is too late. Instead of finding fault with people who are trying to warn you, you should be thanking them for helping you to look closely and think more carefully about these things.
ReplyDeleteThank-you Elizabeth for a wonderful evaluation of Beth Moore and her ministry. The only way that you can know false doctrine is to study the truth and that you did! Sadly I have been battling the ladies at my current church and their "love" for Beth Moore and somehow her studies keep creeping back amongst the ladies. I have even showed my Senior Pastor and he does not seem to have the desire to change. I guess other things are more important for him than the ladies of the church. We definately are living in the End times! So I will keep praying, keep pressing on and keep contending for the faith! Praying for you too! In Christ Alone, Carol
ReplyDeleteThe emerging church is creeping into many churches. The problem is that Satan is being so sly in bringing it in. People have a tendency to want more of the feel-good stuff, than to hear The Way to get to heaven. These doctrines are permeating the churches and we have to stay on top of them. Keep the church pure because once the leaven is in there it leavens the whole batch. Thanks for your work Elizabeth.
DeleteHi Carol,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your prayers, I need them. Thank you for reading the series and for your encouragement as well. :) I did present my findings to my church Ladies ministry so we will see what happens. Good for you for being strong for the Word and standing up against false doctrines! I'm so proud of you. It is a hard thing to do, isn't it?
Elizabeth -
ReplyDeleteIt took me over an hour to read through your conclusions, but they are based on a firm grasp of Scripture and—I must say—a very charitable view of Beth Moore. I read most of them to my wife over breakfast and into lunch, and she concurs heartily, having been in women's conferences of this ilk in the past.
As an aside, I would suggest that you look into a little-know-but-very-influential "Spiritual Warfare Life Coach" (her title, not mine) named Liberty Savard. She wrote several books (long before Moore) on "breaking free" from "strongholds" and other such nonsense. There's even a chart from our old church that we happened to keep electronically from that teaching (http://www.disconnectchurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/strongholds-chart.gif). You'll see how remarkably similar this pop-psychology and twisting of Scripture is to what you have exhaustively described in Moore's teachings.
As you mentioned in your earlier entry on her teaching, as soon as a great majority of the vastly different evangelical churches all jump on a bandwagon of support for a particular resource or teacher, I get very concerned. Every instance I've seen has proven to be a cult of personality or that of an Ear-Tickler®. :P
I've compiled a handy list of biblical reasons show when and why we ought to judge, here: http://www.therues.com/blog/index.php/2010/10/20/why-criticize-at-all/
A good friend of my wife's was doing a bible study on Esther that was written by Moore, and, to my horror, it was actually not too bad. Why is this to my horror? Because, as you probably well know, she gained credibility with my wife's friend, and then the "Be Still" documentary can be next. This is Moore's M.O., I'm afraid. You said it yourself: it always starts small and gets bigger and bigger and bigger, until it is wildly out-of-control.
She is now lumped in with Lisa Bevere, Joyce Meyer, Juanita Bynam, etc.. That is, she is now part of an elite cadre of female teachers whose basis for belief has been almost entirely extra-biblical, and, as a result of the weight of such revelation being much greater than the sufficiency or authority of Scripture, it has become the sole hermeneutic with which they misinterpret actual Scripture—thus compounding the error.
I applaud your efforts here, and I would be very curious to read how your church leadership reacts to your arguments, since that will be the measure of success or failure of a group of elders, whose charge, per 1 Timothy and Titus, is to keep the flock safe from false doctrine.
In Christ,
Frank
This took a lot of guts, it is not easy to offer an opinion that is contrary to the vast majority of believers. I think that we would all do well to bear in mind that Jesus was an absolute heretic to the church of his day, and to follow his example that no one---- not leaders, not pastors, not people we like--- no one is above reproach. We are all fallen, and those who are in a position of influencing others should be under the closest scrutiny. Those with the best of intentions can still be wrong and do damage. I have done Beth Moore Bible studies myself and have liked her, this has given me a lot to think about and there is a lot of truth here. Bottom line is we need to compare everyone and everything to the Word and to Jesus. He loves more than we could ever imagine, and saw it very fitting to rebuke and call people out when they were not teaching or behaving in a scriptural manner.
ReplyDeleteI just read through both series and think you did a fantastic job. I appreciate this last exhortation. I wish the men would stand up and do this in so many churches. When we women do it, they just say we're being contentious. Often times men can deal with these naturally divisive issues without gathering so much flack (don't know why, but it just happens that way!) and without being considered 'prideful' or 'bitter' or 'of a critical spirit' the way a woman would if she did the same.
ReplyDeleteSigh. But I have nothing against women doing it, myself, as long as they are matching everything up to Scripture as you have been doing.
It might be interesting, if you get flamed, to save some of those flames and post them as a separate post - and show us what kind of women tend to defend Moore. I have read some that have come to other women who dare to speak out against Beth Moore and have been appalled.
Elizabeth
ReplyDeleteThank you for such an insightful series of posts and for having the back bone to confront these issues. I have done two of Beth Moore's studies and was troubled about the content especially in the second one. The error is subtle and hard to put a finger on and it seems even harder to convey to others, even those who are open to discussion, let alone those who are enthralled with her teaching. You did an excellent job. May God bless your efforts. LM
I just came across your Beth Moore series and I wanted to say thank you. I have participated in a number of her studies through my church and had grave reservations about them but had a difficult time pinpointing my issues. Your posts served to bring into focus the things that were troubling me and made me issue a sigh of relief. Turns out I'm not alone after all! :) I tried really hard to like her. She is a somewhat entertaining teacher but the content of her "teachings" was difficult to digest and just didn't sit well with me. I found the workbooks that accompany the videos to be full of her commentary and have very, very little scripture. When you do find scripture if you go read it in context you often find that it has nothing to do with the point she's making (I call this scriptotorture as it shouldn't be twisted around like that.)
ReplyDeleteI appreciate that you tried very hard to handle this fairly and give her every opportunity to prove your concerns wrong. In a world where we are clearly wanting to listen to what tickles our ears, speaking out against a popular teacher can bring the firestorm. I appreciate your doing so first, to expose the errors but also because there are those of us who agree but started to wonder if we weren't crazy. So many think her studies are "rich" and so spiritual. Thank you for desiring to see Jesus exalted above all others.
Thank you SO much, Anonymous. I was the center of a kind of a firestorm at my church, once they read my blog entries it was rather unpleasant. The Beth Moore studies are still going strong here and it just breaks my heart. The best I can do at this point is to pray for eyes to be opened at home, and to thank God that people like you have been helped with affirming what you already knew. From the comments I've received, and the emails, there is a growing number of people out there who have grave concerns about Moore's teaching. It IS lonely to be alone in an opinion, and I am alone at home. But comments like yours help me through with knowing that I am not crazy, either :)
ReplyDeleteThis is February 2, 2012 and I just read this blog. Oh my gosh! It is EVERYTHING I have been trying to tell people, dear friends even, at the church I left a couple of years ago due partly to Beth Moore teaching being allowed. I, too, was "chastised" for daring to tell the truth. In fact the information that I placed in specific mail boxes at the church shortly before a Beth Moore "retreat" the women were going on, had been removed by one of the elders and turned over to my husband to give back to me. When he brought them home I was livid at the fact that anyone could remove info from anyone else's box and make an uninformed and unauthorized decision. I marched back to the church and put them BACK into the boxes. I was confronted by the pastor. I explained my position and he then created a letter of what it means to be a "false prophet" and sent them to the elders and the one woman who was responsible for the Sunday School class organization and choosing the material. It was all against me. He would not give me a copy.
ReplyDeleteI have tried numerous times to engage my friends in conversation concerning Beth Moore's teachings but it turns around against me that I am judging Beth Moore. I have even been accused of "Not liking Beth Moore." I replied that "I do not KNOW Beth Moore so I can't say if I like HER or not. But I don't like what she teachers because it is filled with error." I told them time and time again that I am NOT judging her salvation but I am judging the error she teachers. They refuse to listen to what I have to say or even the proof from other apologetists such as Elizabeth. I have done so much research on Beth Moore and have tried to do her studies. I have tried watching her videos and I have watched her on TV. I say "tried" because I end up weeping and praying for the eyes of others to be opened to this false teaching.
These are the same friends that I went on a "prayer retreat" with and it ended up being a "deliverance" meeting. I literally ran out sick to my stomach the first night there. I called my husband and was nearly hystercial at what I was hearing and experiencing. They did the same thing with the music that Elizabeth described at the Beth Moore conference. It "whips" the audience into a frenzy then calms down and "whips" up again over and over and the background music never stops! Also there were some weird usages of OT concerning Queen Esther and how the King raised his septre for her to enter. I left during that too because they wanted people to line up and pass under the billows to the "throne" as Jesus raised his septre to them. Two of the three other friends totally bought into this and as I tried to talk to them about the error of that on the way home I was blasted! The ride was a 12 hour ride.
But we MUST keep on exposing error.
I have just visited your site for the first time and spent the last two hours reading your analysis of Beth Moore. I am so grateful God led me to your site, as our ladies group at church is in the middle of a Beth Moore study and I have been very troubled in my spirit but unable to come up with a clear explanation. Your pains-taking work has opened my eyes to the clear truth - thank-you from the bottom of my heart. I will certainly be visiting your site again! God bless you, dear sister, and give you strength and courage to continue in the ministry He has given you.
ReplyDeleteHi Deborah,
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad this could help.
In the 8 months since I wrote this, Mrs Moore has deepened her walk away from the good path. Recently she came out and said that she was taken by Jesus above the world so He could show her the church through His eyes...and then so she come back and tell about what He has planned. Wow.
I put the video clip and wrote about it here
http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2011/12/beth-moore-says-god-lifted-her-into.html
There are three main concerns in my opinion, with her teaching. I think the most concerning things about how she approaches teaching are her constant personal revelations from Jesus with new information to then go and tell. The canon is closed, the total revelation is in the bible. Constant claims by 'America's most popular bible teacher' of additional information from Jesus is having a dangerous and negative effect on our stance that the bible is sufficient for living and learning. Her constant chipping away of the sufficiency of what is in the bible has opened it to a can of worms, and you can know that the worms are not from Jesus. You can read three short articles here about how and why we must believe the canon is closed (and no more revelations are occurring) so that we may reject Mrs Moore's and others' claims about new things Jesus is doing. The article contains scriptures, it's here
http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/a231
It is a dangerous dilution of the sufficiency of God's word and her preaching of a personal and special revelatory relationship with Jesus is having an enormous impact today.
Second I feel that the next most dangerous thing that she does is claim that the Spirit took her physically and mentally and poured into her the books she is writing. The method she describes of how this happens and even the language she uses to describe when it happens is the exact same language the turn of the last century occultists used in the Victorian era. It is obvious that back then the writers (Yeats, Blake, etc) were experimenting with demons, and it is no different now, just couched in Christianese language to make it more palatable. And Christians by the millions are swallowing it. I explored that in a three part series called channeling, and it is on the front page to the right.
And the third most damaging way she teaches is to make the bible be all about us. She strip-mines the bible for passages she turns into passages about man, and uses Jesus's name to do it. It is not. The bible is about Jesus, not us. Her influence on Christian books in the last five years is obvious. If you go to any bookstore, you will see titles that take the bible into a self-help manual and how it is all about us and our wounds and our pits and our needs. This narcissism and self-absorption is also having a devastating effect on our faith overall.
She looks good, she sounds good, she teaches with dynamism. I have no doubt she began well. But the bible teaches that satan is crafty, sly, a schemer, and subtle. Her slide away from solid teaching has gone on undetected for years, but finally a critical mass has been reached and more people are noticing, like you did. However, much damage has already been done to our faith through her teaching. I am so glad that you're willing to take a look at the hows and whys of her teaching being off-the-path and I pray that your objections will be heard.
The link above says "video is private."
DeleteRobin a few weeks ago, Moore began scrubbing her most criticized videos. Some are now taken down and others as you noted, say private. Thanks for attempting to check it out, though... It's not the bibilical way to handle criticism, but it's one way to avoid being accountable. Just take the videos down. Sad.
DeleteMany years ago I attended a couple of Beth Moore studies. They troubled me a great deal and I really struggled with the workbook as "something' was so wrong. Thankfully, I only attended the second one a short period of time as the Lord began to open my eyes to the danger of her studies directing one to 'self' rather than Christ Jesus.
ReplyDeleteSince that time, I honestly have paid little attention to her ministry, and by 'accident' came upon this blog. It is a blessing to find such confirmation here ... and to see that now the Lord is opening many eyes to the truth regarding the dangers of these teachings.
Your blog is well written and appreciated and know that you do not stand alone in this ...for the Lord is surely with you ..showing you the Truth. I suspect there are many of us that have not seen your blog ..but have seen the truth. And should they, like I have come across your blog ... will agree that it is much appreciated, not only as a warning ...but as a confirmation of the truth He has shown others as well.
I have been working on Beth Moore's Breaking Free Bible Study Workbook for about 8 months. I'm so busy at work that I could not attend the weekly home meetings to watch the videos and did find that I didn't seem to get as much from the videos. Breaking Free is one of Beth's older Workbooks and it is a wonderfully written study to get you indepth into the Word in Isaiah and many other scriptures if you choose to use it in that way. I'm not a baby Christian and have not seen many of Beth's newer works or been to any of her conferences. But, I do know that in this Bible study the focus is on our relationship with God. If is also about scripture memory verses and helping individuals to overcome the hurts,habits or hangups they may have that cause them to fail in their walk with God. After I spend 30 minutes or so in the mornings studying the scriptures and writing them down that Beth says to look up my spirit is renewed and refreshed. While you are correct that we must be very aware and careful of false doctrines, if the true plan of salvation is being given and Jesus is being lifted up and the Word of God is being preached the Bible tells us also that there is value in that....at least the Word is being preached...Phil 1:18...and it is the Word that has the power to save;not the person who is saying it. So, if Beth is referring to the Word and reading the scriptures in her conferences and in her writings, the actual Word unharmed and unchanged, then God's power is there to change...It is up to Him to do it.
ReplyDeleteAnd, so what if Beth Moore, Joyce Meyers, Joel Osteen, Chuck Swindoll and all of the other famous preachers and speakers of God's Word are making alot of money. That's their burden to carry...and a heavy burden it is...nice in many ways but very heavy...Billy Graham in his long full life knows that burden and has managed it well...those chosen for that burden and that position need much prayer.
Hi Helen, normally I don't use to write a comment, but in this case I decided because you say something that needs to be clarified.
ReplyDeleteit is the Word that has the power to save; not the person who is saying it.
You bring to my mind the word of God that says: 2nd chorintians 3:6, Titus 1: 9, 2:1,
This Lady B. Moore, is using her influence over thounsand women to bring them to the wrong path; if God send some of His servants (in this case Elizabeth), to open the eyes of those women are you going to resist the Holy Spirit??? The will of God, the light, The true?
For other side; why Jesus Christ Himself did confront the Pharisees? He should let them continue talking lies, as you say (NOT THE WORD OF GOD); it is up to HIM to do it???
Just a reminder for you. The Devil himself used the word of God to tempted Jesus Christ; it was the Devil who used the word of God to deceive Eva?
Not conform with what we hear of the famous preachers or not famous, we should do our homework and spend time in our private closet in the presence of God and to the light of His word; asking Him wisdom James 1:5.
Remember that Jesus Christ came to save us no only from Sin but from ourself that is the root of the sin. He came to supplant us; to live His life in us, we are death and He is alive in us.
I highly recomend to you, to myself and everyone else, dont trust in any man or woman, either in our own opinion, but in Jesus Christ, in His Holy Spirit the only one who reveal the Truth, Interpret the Truth and enable us to effectually communicate to others the Truth He Himself has interpreted to us :)
Thank you so much Elizabeht for this very well done work; I can see the grace of God over you, trough these words, and let me tell you, you are not alone, we need to keep ourself looking to the invisible one :) as Abraham, keeping our Faith in Jesus Christ the Author and finisher of our Faith.
Love in Christ.
Hello. It's been nearly two years since you wrote your at-length blog post concerning Beth Moore. I read each and every one ... leading up to the conference and following the conference. Thank you so much for all the time you put into researching this and providing sound, Biblical doctrine to refute much of what BM teaches.
ReplyDeleteI have long been fighting our church, both in prayer and verbally, warning them to be discerning of this ministry. Sadly, like you, I have been much in the minority. Still I keep plodding on and interjecting whenever I can. You have provided me with a valuable resource to help me in my quest to make women more aware of this false doctrine going on. Again, thank you so much.
Hello Rose,
DeleteThank you so much for reading, and for the encouragement. I have written about Mrs Moore I think at least 17 times on my blog, and I've written about her subsequent to the conference I attended two years ago. I believe that in the last couple of years we have really seen an acceleration in her apostasy. She has since admitted to having visions where Jesus lifted her above the earth and she saw the global church in another dimension through HIS eyes (!?) and by the way that global church she mentioned included Catholics. This is rank heresy and I'm so sad that she is drifting like she is. I am even sadder for the many women who take her studies. Thank YOU for being diligent and trying hard to share the truth.
When I brought these issues to my pastor and his wife at my former church, unbenownst to me at the time, it was the beginning of the end of my attendance there. In a way, I'm glad, though it was hard at the time. But it caused me to see His providence in hindsight. God is glorious, and His name WILL be praised.
If you do a search in the box at the top for Beth Moore, the other blog entries will come up. Some are permanently linked on the right in a group.
Keep persevering, Rose. Jesus knows your effort son His behalf and He will reward you.
Thank you for your examination of Beth Moore's teaching. I thought I was alone in questioning her Bible studies. From the first time I was introduced to her studies more than 8 years ago through the present, I've been uncomfortable, but I thought it was just her style I didn't like. Everywhere I turn, in every church and ministry, her studies dominate the women's ministries. Thank you for speaking up and clarifying the error in her teaching. It is unfortunate, though, that if I want to participate in my women's Bible study group, I can't escape Beth Moore. It's a trade-off for me, and perhaps I can be a voice of reason.
ReplyDeleteHi Jenny,
DeleteThanks SO much for reading through this essay. I have heartfelt concern for all women who are under Moore's spell. As you say, there are so many in the South who rely on her almost solely for their bible teaching. I have equal concern for those like you, as so many others have said to me as well, they knew something was off but just couldn't put their finger on it.
I'd like to offer my thoughts if you would bear with me. Please don't take what I say on the face of it, please do read through the relevant verses, and pray and seek counsel from your husband if you are married.
There are true teachers and false ones. I'm not speaking of true teachers who hold to a different timing of the rapture, or how or when to baptize. We all fall along the truth spectrum. However, there are foundational truths we all must adhere to or else when our fruits are examined they will expose us as false. So once a teacher is off the truth spectrum they're on the false spectrum. Jesus is propositional truth: yes or no, either or, straight or narrow, heaven or hell.
Beth Moore is false.
I'd like to offer you one link which I believe purely explains it in no uncertain terms. Here it is:
"One clear reason why Beth Moore is a false teacher:
Examining Beth Moore's statement: the 'Bride is paralyzed by unbelief"
http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2013/06/examining-beth-moores-statement-bride.html
As for participating in a women's bible study group, after I came to the conclusion Beth Moore is false, I have been asked to join this group or that one also. The Gospel Moore preaches is cancer, and I can't expose myself to it, Knowing Moore is false. nor can I go along to get along. But most important, when I say, "I'm sorry. I've studied about Beth Moore and I have concluded she is a false teacher. Therefore I can't participate on the basis of this verse...and that verse. Please feel free to ask me more if you're so inclined."
And then, *don't go.* At that point your absence will speak louder than the voice of reason within the circle. I don't make a stink or a big deal, but I remove myself from the teaching once I know who the teacher is, if she is false. I'm active at church so they know my not attending is a stand, and not inattention or laziness.
Over time, some women have indeed come to me with questions about different teachers.
Just think about it.
My very best to you as you work through this.
Thank you for all you have written and the insights- and Scripture you provide. There is one "pet peeve" I have: Bible should always have a capital B. It is a book title, but more importantly it is The Holy Bible.
ReplyDeleteThank you for reading, I appreciate it!
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your perspective on the capitalization of God's Word.