Beth Moore: reactions part 2, The Music
Beth Moore: part 3a: The Teaching
Beth Moore: reactions part 3b: The Teaching
Beth Moore: reactions part 4: A final word
Hello all,
I've done a 7-part series on Beth Moore, and now I have a few blog entries in mind to share as my reaction from the 6-hour teaching we received in Charlotte at her Living Proof tour. If you are sick of Beth Moore stuff, I don't blame you...I don't like to write on one subject so long, myself. But I do think it is important to examine what she teaches. Here's why:
The Living Proof Tour: Charlotte NC was held in the Time Warner Cable arena, seating about 18,000. The first teaching session on Friday night was held from 7-9:30 pm, and Mrs Moore said that there were about 10,000 present, from two nations (Canada) and 34 states. The second session was on Saturday and the arena was considerably more filled. I'd estimate there were around 12,000 present. One woman I spoke with in the hotel lobby as the ladies were gathering to head out to the Saturday session said that she had driven in the night before from Michigan, twelve straight hours and then went directly to the Friday night session.
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For one woman standing in the long, slowly moving vendor's line, that was clearly answered for me. Let me set the stage for you first before I get to the conversation we had. The area outside the arena was full of energy and bustle. Cars, church buses and ladies from the parking lot moving at a half-trot made the 107-degree pavement outside the entry doors a beehive of activity. Women clutching bibles were streaming in from all directions, all streets, and made a line at the doors go down and around the block. It was general seating , there are no assigned seats. When the doors opened at 5:30 for the 7:00 start, a loud cheer went up and reverberated under the portico, where the lucky ones who'd arrived even earlier got to stand in some shade. At the doors, security men and women checked our bags, but likely all that they found in them were bibles, tissues, and notebooks.
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As I stood in the long line I struck up a chat with the lady behind me. The conversation between myself (EP) and the anonymous woman (AW) went like this:
EP: Have you gone to a Beth Moore bible teaching before?
AW: I've been following her for 11 years. I've done all her studies. The Breaking Free study was really good, because it's all about yourself.
EP: What am I 'breaking free' from?
AW: See, there are all these holes in us. And they fill up with bad stuff.
EP: Like what stuff?
AW: Any bad things in the world, tv, addictions. Your past. There's a hole God puts in us too but the holes Beth Moore talks about are the strongholds. Beth Moore helps us break free.
[I was struck by how she equalized the God-hole that fills with grace when we accept Jesus and the holes Beth Moore tells us we're pock marked with].
EP: What if I don't have anything to break free from?
AW: Oh, you'd be surprised! We all do! That's what Beth Moore teaches! That's what I learned during the study!
EP: Are you broken free now?
AW: Yes, now I can live the abundant life.
EP You're looking forward to tonight, then?
AW: Yes. I mean, I've gone to so many of her talks I've heard her testimony so many times I know her family even better than I know my own! I even know her dogs' names and all that, but I'm still looking forward to it.
EP: How is the bible part of it?
AW: Oh, that's good too.
Oh my. If this one woman is any indication, we have a significant cult of personality going on here. I think it is safe to say that we have a Beth Moore groupie... Where is Jesus is in this? It was a question I was going to be asking myself constantly over the next hours and day.Now I know that one woman does not a cult of personality make, but the scene at the arena, the astounding influence her books, lessons, tv show on Life Today, and her studies are having on Christian women everywhere needs to be examined thoroughly. Is this what worship and bible study has come to these days?
Britton's review of the Breaking Free study in part 4 of my series "Troubled by Beth Moore's Teaching: Legalism", and I'm going to link to it again. I urge you to please read it in its entirety, because it sets up the threads for the next blog entry and actually for the basis of my objections to anything and everything Beth Moore. I call it "Why women need to break free from Beth Moore" and here is a Paige Britton excerpt from the review of 'Breaking Free':
"Beth Moore’s book Breaking Free: Making Liberty in Christ a Reality in Life is a condensation of her video-based Bible study of the same name. Written for Christian women, Breaking Free offers readers and participants the “diagnostic tools” to identify and address “areas of captivity” in their lives (p.21). These areas of captivity are variously identified as spiritual oppression, wounds and disappointments, God’s chastisement, mediocre discipleship, and dissatisfaction with the Christian life. Ten central chapters are devoted to exploring the “ancient ruins” and “old bones” of generational sins and past wounds (pp.81-135). From her reading of Galatians 5:1, Moore assumes that Christians can “return to a yoke of bondage” and require further instruction regarding their deliverance (p.21). She assures readers that, whatever their area of captivity, through her study they will indeed enter “the promised land” of “absolute,” “genuine” freedom and liberation, defined as “the abundant and effective Spirit-filled life God has planned” for each individual (pp. xiiif., 34, 2)."
"Throughout her book Moore prioritizes the subjective, experiential elements of the Christian faith. The most serious error resulting from this emphasis is the implication that Christ’s death actually did not secure for us true freedom or the “abundant life” that he promised his followers. Evidently we need to learn some new information and follow some new laws before we can “ignite” the abundant life, or, to put it another way, before God can “deliver us from the bonds that are withholding abundant life” and “set [us] free to be everything He planned” (pp.41, 177, 53, 51). Early on she hints that a secondary “filling” is necessary for the believer to be truly free: “The filling only He can give does not automatically accompany our salvation..."
In preparation for the trip this weekend, I studied Beth Moore intensively. I watched about ten clips from Life Today. I read three transcripts from several of her teachings. I recalled my notes from the 'Loving Well' study I'd forgotten I'd participated in last April at our church's ladies retreat. I read reviews and blog entries about her of trusted men and women in discernment ministries. I re-read Tim Challies' "The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment" book. I prayed, and I read the bible as the Holy Spirit led. I wrote the 7-part series containing my initial conclusions. But I was looking forward to experiencing the phenomenon first hand. There is nothing like being there with no filter to see what's what. I was hoping, really hoping to have my previous conclusions dispelled. They weren't. This trip offered me an opportunity to study Beth Moore first hand, and I finalized many conclusions. One of them is that far from leading women into the truths of the bible, Beth Moore is putting women in bondage.
More in the next blog entry.
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Hi Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteI had no idea there would be this many people! This was a huge gathering!
What really makes my heart sink is that she is leading people wrong and there is a Huge following and these women don't even know they are being duped. I wonder if Beth even knows or is she so caught up in the fluff of the crowd that she doesn't see it.
Something I have always wondered about false teachers, do they know they are false or are they just as misled as their followers.
This is good, I am learning so much about how to research and uncover the deception lying beneath the gold.
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Sounds like people waiting for a rock star. Your description of what took place outside would be a number one reason for me not to attend such an event. I’m sure Moore’s team could have done something about the exorbitant prices.
ReplyDeleteIv’e seen the “cult of personality” in many women I know who are Beth Moore followers. I’ve said many time that it is very much like a cult the way her followers hang on her every word.
I agree “Breaking Free” was very problematic, and I did a review on that one myself.
I wonder what would happen if a man or woman of God would just stand up and tell people something like this; If you want to be free from your sins then read John 8 and continue reading until you understand who gives you this freedom. If you want to stay free from the power of sin then read Galations 5.. and then proceed to read those passages with the congregation etc..Oh yeah, they do this each and every sunday in sunday school class and during the sermon from our pastors! Wow, what a concept..If you want to know more seek:
ReplyDelete1. With guidance from the Holy Spirit, READ THE BIBLE
2. Go to church and LISTEN to the teachers and pastor whom God has given to teach you as well as the Holy Spirit..These people will work to confirm the Word of God..If they don't, then go to a different church.
3. PRAY! Talk to your Father, and He will answer you, comfort you, and give you all you will ever need!
Conclusion: STAY AWAY FROM MASS CULT-LIKE CHRISTIAN SEMINARS that cost you a fortune, make you look like a bunch of starry-eyed teen aged women who are ready to swoon at any moment.
(save it for JESUS, He is ALL you need)!
I just feel like there are so many well meaning but perhaps clueless Christians who are not truly seeking the one who can fulfill all those vacancies in their lives; they say they know Jesus and He is their Lord and Shepherd and then they run after somebody else to lead them. Silly sheep. Makes me a little mad.
(Thanks for letting me vent here a little :)
P.S. Beth Moore needs to humble herself before her Lord; and if she is a gifted teacher, once she remembers what and who the TRUTH is, she should teach it in her local church..for free.
I have the workbook Breaking Free and I could never quite get into it. Now, I know why.
DeleteHi Katrina,
DeletePraise the Lord! I'm so glad he shed light on this for you.
Beth Moore presents the Experiential, Breaking Free, Try Harder religion, yet Jesus BROKE US FREE **ALREADY**!!
Never Forsaken, it is ironic you mention Galatians 5, because in Paige Britton's review of "Breaking Free" by Beth Moore Paige says that Beth's interpretation of the verse:(Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage) is
ReplyDelete"From her reading of Galatians 5:1, Moore assumes that Christians can “return to a yoke of bondage” and require further instruction regarding their deliverance (p.21)."
The verse really means broken free from bondage of rites and ceremonies, legalism, and yet that is exactly the legalism Beth Moore promotes in the next breath.
As far as the starry eyed women at the seminar, I did notice that her appeal is mainly to white, well dressed, well-heeled women. In a demographic of 10,000 women I saw very few black ladies and barely any other minorities.
I was there, and correction as it was stated twice: there were 9400 people not 12000. Does the Bible state anywhere that it is wrong to use drums and guitars in worship? Do you honestly expect everyone to worship exactly like you? To the contrary the Bible encourages the use of percussion, symbols, and stringed instruments and to make a joyful noise unto the Lord. For one of the first times in my life instead of being distracted by others around me, my focus was completely on Christ and worshiping HIM and HIM alone. As Beth Moore so graciously taught us from the scripture we are not to debate, so I am not writing this to strike up a debate, but I am troubled that someone would spend such precious time and money to de-bunk or heckle a sister-in-Christ. You were not there to glorify or build up the kingdom but were instead a hindrance. Why not use your time more wisely and feed the sick or clothe the needy and spread the gospel as we are commissioned to do. What can be found wrong with the teaching of God's love?
ReplyDeleteH-O-L-D-F-A-S-T God has set his love upon me (and I am so unworthy)
You are correct, it was stated in the beginning of the first session that there were about 9400, which I initially stated in the blog entry that there were "about 10,000", (because more trickled in after a while, I saw) and the second night I said there were many more and I estimated that to be "about 12000" because all the sections except the end sections were at capacity. I asked the officials what the capacity was, counted the sections by using the multiplication array, and arrived at the estimate.
ReplyDeleteYes we are to debate. Sorry, but theology matters. That was Beth misusing scripture to evade accountability. If we take what Beth said about never engaging in debates then we have to rip out most of what Paul wrote, because a lot of it was rebuke and correction. Look at 1 Cor 3:1-2. The scripture she used (not quoted) actually did not say not to engage in "heated debates" but says "But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth".(2 Tim 2:23-25). It's up to you to determine if this is a foolish and ignorant speculation or not, and if it isn't, then please note the rest of the verse, "correct those who are in opposition".
That same chapter in 2 Timothy says to "Avoid profane and vain babblings, for they shall increase unto more ungodliness".
There is nothing wrong with teaching about God's love. If Mrs Moore had used the scriptures properly in teaching the verses that *were* about love, then that would be good. She didn't.
I ask you to consider to whom you are more loyal: Beth Moore or Jesus? Unless we Christians test all things, hold fast to the good, (scriptures cited above) and let the rest go, we're not loyal to His Spotless name. I would hope that you are as zealous for truth as you are for Beth Moore's reputation...
As for clothing the poor and feeding the needy, I believe you're speaking of the Spiritual gifts of Mercy and Helps (Rom 12:7-8) which I happily participate in. But my main spiritual gifts are prophecy and exhortation (Rom. 12:6 1 Cor. 12:10 and Rom 12:8) so that is why I say these things. We are all called to do different things in the body and this is the ministry which He has set before me. Your job is to receive them, examine them, (1 Thess 5:21) and discern for yourself balanced against scripture whether they are good or bad. If you do not, you're simply giving Mrs Moore a pass because you like her, and there is nothing in scripture that says we're to do that. You would be failing your duty.
Charity,
ReplyDeleteI would like to add just a couple comments to Elizabeth’s excellent response to you.
First, how was she a “hinderance” - by not fawning over Moore? What exactly did Elizabeth hinder? You made the charge - substantiate it.
Secondly, your question about what Elizabeth should do to use her time “more wisely” presupposes you know what she does in relation to these issues. I could respond with the same question to you - why don’t YOU use your time more wisely than following after a false teacher?
very harsh response, Glenn. A lot of anger in your response.
DeleteCharity, who are you to say that Elizabeth isn't doing exactly what she has been called by God to do? She is a watchman (rather, watchwoman). She is helping the poor-- the poor in Spirit. The ones who desperately seek God, but are looking in the wrong place for Him.
ReplyDeleteI submitted my last comment too soon.
ReplyDeleteJust because one loves God, loves Christ, that does not always mean they know to look in the right places for Him. It's easy for our ears to be tickled, especially when the focus is on how God loves US. US, US, US. It's not about us. We are poor in Spirit when we long for God, and know that there is NOTHING WE CAN DO to get to Him ourselves. It's always about Him. And this whole series of posts shows that Beth Moore makes it more about US and OUR experience, than it is about pointing to Him.
'For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 2 Timothy 4:3
ReplyDelete'Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.' 2 Timothy 2:15
~ and therein lies the problem.
False teachers would have no following if Christians took the time to read His Word, Study His Word, and pray; but then I guess it is easier to swallow and follow than to read, to study and to pray.
Another gathering of hate mongers. If someone has the audacity to become too popular the little people feel ignored and start circling for a kill. "False teacher!" People, I would suggest you get out your New Testament and read it though and this time take it to heart. I hope the Spirit of God will speak to your hearts before it is too late.
ReplyDeleteHi ellie,
DeleteI'm sad that you chose to call a clear, discerning, biblical opinion "hate." Hate is not simply disagreeing with another person. If you believe she is a true teacher then please share why. If you believe the verses I've used in the piece are used incorrectly or do not illustrate why Moore is false, then please share why. But calling people hate mongers is simply juvenile and does not advance anyone's understanding of the issues at hand.
Your suggestion that we take our New Testaments (though why not the Old?) and read it was done, and I found that Beth Moore is a false teacher.
How interesting. My church ladies do her DVD seminar thingies. I personally don't go. I'd rather hear gifted teacher from my own church teach me.
ReplyDeleteI think maybe the problem are the masses who idolize Beth Moore, more than Beth Moore herself. (There was a period in my life where I became so besotted with Oswald Chambers that I read "My Utmost for His Highest" to the exclusion of the Bible. That's when I put it away.)
Honestly, I know NOTHING about Beth Moore that I haven't read from a third-party source; but, are we blaming her instead of blaming the sheep?
My only gripe is, as I've said, I hate that music and teaching has gotten so commercial. My unsaved friend says that the evangelical churches are entertainment value. That stung....
I just can't envision the sermon on the mount with loud music blasting and innocuous, folksy stories for the telling. And DON'T try to persuade me with Christian subculture nonsense of "reaching" people. Christ never used pop culture to reach His audience. We keep trying to better and refine on the Master's example.
Hi Anonymous,
DeleteGreat comment Anonymous. Thank you. And I agree with your unsaved friend about the churches all about being entertainment.
I blame Beth Moore, AND the audience. The bible says teachers will be judged more strictly, therefore not many should be teachers (James 3:1).
However, as Paul Washer says, the audience is not victims of the false teacher. They are experiencing the judgment of God upon them for not wanting God, but are being judged because of wanting what the wolf offers: their carnal heart's desires!
5-min clip here:
http://youtu.be/iWMrKcFKqzk
This is a wonderful blog. I usually don't like blogs. As I have found most just a waste of time. Where you learn nothing. And hear alot of personal confusions. You are a wonderful writer. And right on the money with your discernment. God has truly Blessed You. And will continue to do so. Keep up the good work! ps. 92:1 Give thanks and sing praises to His name, his loving kindness and faithfulness. Malachi 3:6 Never changing is the Lord our God.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous,
DeleteThanks so much. I'm not so big on the hand-wringing, emotional stuff. I like facts and ideas, and when those facts and ideas illuminate Jesus as Savior&Lord, Prophet, and High Priest, then, all the better! It is the ultimate!
If you don't like Beth Moore or agree with her then why not just stay away from her? Why do you people get on here and judge her? I have learned a great deal from her bible studies and I am very excited about tonight. If she is wrong, which I believe she is not, then the Lord will take care of her not your judgmental comments. As far as the prices go, they are always the same It doesn't matter what the event is. Living Proof cannot do anything about the prices. Go through a drive thru before you get there.
ReplyDeleteIf you read Revelation 2, the Church at Thyatira, the situation there was that a woman was teaching false doctrine (a Jezebel-type, Jesus said- Rev 2:20b). Many were following her (Jezebel's children- Rev 2:23). Jesus made promises about what He would do to the false teacher and what He would do to the followers.
DeleteHowever, many were not following the woman who was teaching falsely. But Jesus still had a burden to put on those who "stayed away". He said they needed to repent too because they knew she was wrong, but they TOLERATED her false teaching (Revelation 2:20a).
Jesus's church is a serious thing. Falsity is variously called a gangrene by Paul, a sickness by Jesus, poison by James...you get the idea. No one is supposed to see sin and falsity and leave the brethren to go their own way. I would be hating you to do that- not loving you like I'm supposed to.
As for judgmental comments, YES THEY ARE. I prayed, studied, repented, read some more, and then I JUDGED her teaching unhealthy and I do not tolerate it. John said to judge righteously (John 7:24) and I pray that I have done so. If you were on train tracks unaware that the train was coming I'd warn you, wouldn't I? Of course! So, get off the Beth Moore Track!
As for the prices, I stated clearly in the article that I know Beth Moore doesn't have anything to do with them but it still felt like a Temple greed.
And the one thing you and I agree on is, yes, Jesus will take care of the false teachers like Beth Moore. He will also take care of all those who followed them and all those that knew they were false and tolerated them.
Thank you for your blog Elizabeth. Thank you for warning about Beth Moore. I was attending a Beth Moore study at church and felt something wrong. Especially her breath prayers, and then I found out she endorses contemplative prayer and contemplative authors like Brennaning Manning and Susn Monk Kidd! My pastor said Beth Moore denies any involvement in contemplative prayer. I sent him links about the Be Still video and Beth Moore participating in the lectio devina at the Passion 2012. He said it's unChristian to accuse Beth of guilt by association.
ReplyDeleteI noticed, too, that some of the women were so enamored with Beth Moore, it was uncomfortable.
Our churches are saturated these days with contemplative practices. It's amazing. Where is the discernment? Contemplative prayer is a dangerous, occult practice. From what I've read it is even related to the kundalini awakening, like the baptism of the holy spirit that some churches teach.
Thank you so much for your hard work.
Hi Elizabeth, I have not looked at your blog long enough to know who you are but came upon it because I was googling words that would take me to find others who are not into Beth Moore. So glad I'm not alone in thinking something just doesn't seem right with all the Beth Moore hype.
ReplyDeleteIt's ridiculous. I'm sure she's got some great qualities, but really??? I've scratched my head for a long time trying to figure out what's wrong with me for not at all feeling challenged or inspired by Beth. Maybe it's just the place I'm at in life. And maybe it has something to do w/my background. I grew up with a pentacostal, evangelical background/home. While there are some good things that came from my heritage, there is some dysfunction that came w/it too. I learned all to well how the Christian culture can become the foundation of our faith, instead of Christ. God doesn't usually do Christian ministry like a monarchy. Instead of being run by a few popular people, I've learned that true, authentic, nuts and bolts ministry happens in the darkest corners of society, not usually from a pulpit. Just my own experience anyway. People who are running ranches for abused youth, nursing home ministries, people running shelters for abused women, etc... God calls people to teach and have more visible ministries too, but I think when they come to a place of popularity and fame to the level of Beth Moore, it's time for Beth to be training new and younger teachers to go out into the local towns and churches, instead of everything coming from her. Kind of like when everyone was going to Moses to get advice and so God said it was time for him to have helpers to do the work. Surely, Beth has seen how in love people are with her. Seems like she'd want to strategically find ways to change that. Train others and encourage others to use their teaching gifts, find ways to be less visible so that Christ is MORE visible. When you see that your picture and name are plastered on every single church's teaching material, it's time to find ways to make yourself "less" of the focus. I have no doubt Beth is a devoted follower of Christ, but I think she's falling into the dangerous trap of what humans with too much success run into: enjoying the attention instead of putting a stop to it.
I am in a women's Bible study at my congregation and I am not the type to fawn over these mega churchs and starlit Bible teachers. We are on our second Beth Moore study, first we did Insecurity, and now Daniel. I take what aligns with God's word and I leave the rest. I am not afraid to disagree with these authors if I know if what they are saying is not Biblical. I will never pay to go to a Bible conference by one of these teachers. I go to an Assemblies of God Church and I am going to study to become an ordained minister. I whole-heartedly agree that music should accompany worship songs but not be used to manipulate feelings as I am also a psychology/ therapy minded person and to rely on emotions to worship or exercise faith is dangerous. We must turn only to Biblical truth as our compass not emotions.
ReplyDeleteIt is somewhat ironic that the Study of Daniel is about rejecting all the things Beth Moore seems to be, glamorous, wealthy beyond need as in over- indulgence. Hmmm we shall see how this turns out.
Hi Natalie,
DeleteThank you kindly for sharing your thoughts. I agree, it is pretty ironic that the study of Daniel and Beth Moore's life seem to be at opposite ends.
Good luck on your ordination. The bible allows only men in the position of ordained minister, so... as you say, Hmmm, I'll see how that all turns out.