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By Elizabeth Prata
I am working on a series of essays looking at the teachings of Beth Moore. She is currently a wildly popular Christian Bible teacher. Her books, DVDs, lessons, devotionals and tours sell like hotcakes. She regularly fills stadiums and arenas to capacity. She is sought after for speaking engagements and has a regular spot on a television show called Life Today. She teaches Sunday School in her home town of Houston when she is in town and has had that position since 1984.
We are in the times of the doctrines of devils, of false teachers and of deception. Beth Moore may be true or she may be false (we'll explore that this essay and the next) but because the Bible warns of these problems with teachers and teachings at the latter days, it is important for us to take a careful look at any and all teachers who have this much influence. I mentioned in Part One that I am headed to a Beth Moore conference this weekend. I'll be listening to her for 6 hours and may have more to say afterward. In preparation for these essays I've listened to Beth Moore for several hours, prayed, read others' concerns, and studied.
So far I've looked at Mrs. Moore's manner of delivery. In these next essays I'll look at the content of what she teaches and whether the Word is handled rightly. I'll be looking at five issues- Contemplative Prayer, Legalism, Personal Revelation, Eisegesis vs. exegesis, and outright error. This part will look at Mrs Moore's drift to eastern mysticism and Contemplative Prayer.
Troubled by Beth Moore Teaching, Part 1
In which I declare my biases, give a short lesson on discernment, and begin with a concern about how casually Mrs. Moore delivers her lessons.
Troubled by Beth Moore Teaching, Part 2
In which I look at one of the things that happens when women teach (tag-end questions and affirmation seeking), the undignified delivery of her lessons, and the problems with a rapid-fire teaching.
Contemplative Prayer:
On June 10, 2011, I posted a blog entry about a congregation that voted to rejoin the Catholic church. They were so happy, saying, "It’s like correcting 500 years of history." Their yearning for the 'rigor' and authority of the old Catholic traditions is really a disguise and a diversion for a more insidious liberal Christian drift: Catholic Mysticism. The Catholic traditions have always been rooted in what every false religion is rooted in: some Bible PLUS man's traditions. Some of the Catholic traditions were gained from mystics and monks who claimed special revelations after having engaged in certain kinds of prayer, or other behaviors suspiciously similar to Native American spirit walks and aboriginal dream quests. It was this problem among many others what Martin Luther rebelled against, stripping away the layers of man-built doctrines to get back to the pure Word taught directly taught to the people and available directly for the people.
Special revelations have always attracted sinful and prideful man. We want to hear from God and we want it now. Diligent searching of the scriptures and patience to hear His Spirit speaking softly to us are too hard. A vision will do. Why study hard when I can wait for a neon writing in the sky that I can then use to exalt myself and prove I am really, really religious. The current drift back toward these practices should not surprise us, it has been a problem since the beginning. Contemplative prayer is a mystical kind of prayer session in which the penitent actively engages in a consciousness-altering methodology in order to better hear the Spirit speaking. As with so many of satan's successful tactics, true contemplative prayer is a hunk of manure with a superficial layer of something that seems good on the outside. Initially, you'd think that contemplative prayer means being quiet, and pondering the Word in a reverential moment. No doubt that was what it was at the beginning. Monks and Anchoresses engaged in contemplative and mystical practices along with their other ascetic exercises and things are coming full circle now.
Asceticism is defined here: "The most blessed of all people are those who exhibited the greatest repentance, with pain and inner contrition, and, in this way, extinguished the proud enemy. They humbled their unruly flesh with asceticism - subdued it to the spirit - and granted the greatest joy to Heaven with their repentance (their return to God). (Elder Paisios). That definition brings to mind this verse: "The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector." (Luke 18:11). And notice who subdued the flesh: man, not the Spirit. The Spirit subdues the flesh (1 Thess. 3:13; 1 Pet. 1:2; Rom. 8:2-4; Gal. 4:6). But in contemplative, mystical practices, man's efforts are supreme.
So the penitents were the guys who wore hairshirts, flailed themselves, and knelt on stones to prove they were more pious than other people. It's the same-old same-old, Pharisaical practice of showy faith and the false belief that what I do gets me into heaven, rather than what I believe. Wrap contemplative prayer in this set of practices, include practitioners such as New Agers and Buddhists, and you've got the picture.
The Fuel Project addressed Catholic practices and the Reformation in their fine series.
Now what does Beth Moore have to do with Contemplative Prayer? In participating in a DVD called "Be Still", about Contemplative Prayer she identifies herself with those who are part of a growing Counter-Reformation movement. The old 'God will let me in because of what I do' and mystical, personal revelation, experiential, vision quest approach to faith (faith by signs and not faith by belief) is becoming increasingly popular even as it has already infiltrated the more conservative realms of the shreds of what used to be a strong fundamentalist faith. Satan got the Catholics long ago. He's got the liberal Christians now. Who is left? Satan knows that the last bastion of people who preach the truth are the fundamentalist, conservative evangelicals huddled at the corners of places like the Southern Baptist Convention and other pockets, so he figures the best way to attract them to falsity is not by luring them back to the obvious errors of New Age, Wiccan, Buddhist etc. Those practices would turn off the conservative evangelicals, identifying it for what it is, false and wrong. Instead, he turns the prideful eyes to a near-Christian practice, embedded in our religious psyche: Catholic and Orthodox mysticism. All that unpleasantness about the Reformation happened so long ago, can't we all just get along? And bingo, we have Beth Moore saying:
"You know, one of the things that time gives us is that it erases the lines in between people so many different sections of the people of God. Because many years later it doesn’t matter any longer that this person was of this practice in the Christian faith and this person of another. Time somehow blurs those lines and we are profoundly moved by the historical narratives of all their lives, of so great a cloud of witnesses; that we can look back on and see what kept them running the race, what kept them running toward the face of Christ at the end of that finish line."
So, 'all that messiness' was so long ago it doesn't count anymore? All the martyrs burned for daring to oppose the Catholic Church's authority can be dismissed, while we embrace the forefathers of this perpetration of evil because we're moved by their historical narrative? I don't think so. Yet suddenly the lines are not blurred when she teaches on generational bondage and advises women how to extract themselves from the historical hold addictions have on them...
In the Be Still promotional writing, the producer says of the practice: "We wanted people to know that you don’t have to be a super scholar or saint to experience this type of listening prayer and intimacy with God.” It is the old, false drift to personal revelation extant of the bible, my truth versus your truth, and experience not scholarship. This appeals to women because they are busy. Either they are at home with kids, in which case their middle name is "run-run-run", or they are working AND raising kids which means they really have little time at all. Being told by famous Christian women that you don't have to study and you can just tune into God's frequency and have it all plopped down into your mind has great appeal. The danger, of course, is that what is plopped down into it may be untruth, but since women are being told they don't have to study, how will they know?
The Be Still producer continues, "Look for times to stop and grab ‘be still’ moments. One of my favorite times is when I pull into the driveway after being out in traffic or running errands. There is a perfect silence just as I turn the car off and the door is still closed. Sometimes I will sit in the driveway with the Lord for five or 10 minutes before I go into the house. We have these moments all throughout our day, but if we don’t make time to learn to recognize them, we won’t notice them and will miss God’s little gifts of silence and peace.”
But we're supposed to meditate on the scriptures! you say. "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success." (Joshua 1:8)
Yes we are supposed to meditate on His Word. Read Charles Spurgeon's explanation of what that means and how to do it. I don't see anything in there about emptying your mind, breathing deeply, and sitting in the driveway.
Now I want to mention that I think we have become too casual about praying in the Word. The liberal theology of past generation has instilled in us an undue focus on the Buddy Jesus and not the JUDGE ALMIGHTY. We focus on His friendship, His lovingkindness, and forgo the reverence that used to define private worship. We finish the dishes, plop down, fold our hands, and start yakking. This is fine as one kind of prayer, but there should be some kind of reverential attitude at some point. When I sit down to pray, I take a few deep breaths, to separate in my mind the previous activity from the upcoming one. I clear the cobwebs and prepare my body to respect the moment. I wait a few minutes and let the mundane thoughts bubbling around my mind dissipate. In Old Testament times the High Priest could only enter the Holy of Holies once per year, on the Day of Atonement. "Even as the high priest entered the Holy of Holies on the Day of Atonement, he had to make some meticulous preparations: He had to wash himself, put on special clothing, bring burning incense to let the smoke cover his eyes from a direct view of God, and bring blood with him to make atonement for sins." (source). He didn't sit in the driveway and grab a few minutes just to stick God into the day!
Just because we can do this: "Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body …let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith.” (Hebrews 10:19-22) doesn't mean we should be calling driveway prayers special intimacy with God. New Covenant access to Him doesn't mean casualness, but that's what intimacy with Him has become. And that is one of the issues I have with Moore. (See part one). And what about the thief on the cross? I don't think he had time to be still and quiet, so he missed out on "God’s little gifts of silence and peace"? Beware teachers who say do it my way or you're doing it wrong. Of contemplative prayer, Beth Moore said; "[I]f we are not still before Him [God], we will never truly know to the depths of the marrow of our bones that He is God. There's got to be a stillness."
And that brings us to an even greater concern of her teaching: legalism. You have to listen carefully and do a lot of note-taking because she goes so fast, or listen online and use the pause button a lot, but Beth Moore has a tendency to shape the scriptures away from pure faith and toward legalism. She splits sentences, putting a crowbar between words and inserting things you've 'got' to do. There is a lot of 'do this or else'. Re-read her contemplative prayer quote: "[I]f we are not still before Him, we will never truly know to the depths of the marrow of our bones that He is God. There's got to be a stillness." Tell that to the thief on the cross.
Next essay: Beth Moore's Legalism
I am working on a series of essays looking at the teachings of Beth Moore. She is currently a wildly popular Christian Bible teacher. Her books, DVDs, lessons, devotionals and tours sell like hotcakes. She regularly fills stadiums and arenas to capacity. She is sought after for speaking engagements and has a regular spot on a television show called Life Today. She teaches Sunday School in her home town of Houston when she is in town and has had that position since 1984.
We are in the times of the doctrines of devils, of false teachers and of deception. Beth Moore may be true or she may be false (we'll explore that this essay and the next) but because the Bible warns of these problems with teachers and teachings at the latter days, it is important for us to take a careful look at any and all teachers who have this much influence. I mentioned in Part One that I am headed to a Beth Moore conference this weekend. I'll be listening to her for 6 hours and may have more to say afterward. In preparation for these essays I've listened to Beth Moore for several hours, prayed, read others' concerns, and studied.
So far I've looked at Mrs. Moore's manner of delivery. In these next essays I'll look at the content of what she teaches and whether the Word is handled rightly. I'll be looking at five issues- Contemplative Prayer, Legalism, Personal Revelation, Eisegesis vs. exegesis, and outright error. This part will look at Mrs Moore's drift to eastern mysticism and Contemplative Prayer.
Troubled by Beth Moore Teaching, Part 1
In which I declare my biases, give a short lesson on discernment, and begin with a concern about how casually Mrs. Moore delivers her lessons.
Troubled by Beth Moore Teaching, Part 2
In which I look at one of the things that happens when women teach (tag-end questions and affirmation seeking), the undignified delivery of her lessons, and the problems with a rapid-fire teaching.
Contemplative Prayer:
On June 10, 2011, I posted a blog entry about a congregation that voted to rejoin the Catholic church. They were so happy, saying, "It’s like correcting 500 years of history." Their yearning for the 'rigor' and authority of the old Catholic traditions is really a disguise and a diversion for a more insidious liberal Christian drift: Catholic Mysticism. The Catholic traditions have always been rooted in what every false religion is rooted in: some Bible PLUS man's traditions. Some of the Catholic traditions were gained from mystics and monks who claimed special revelations after having engaged in certain kinds of prayer, or other behaviors suspiciously similar to Native American spirit walks and aboriginal dream quests. It was this problem among many others what Martin Luther rebelled against, stripping away the layers of man-built doctrines to get back to the pure Word taught directly taught to the people and available directly for the people.
Special revelations have always attracted sinful and prideful man. We want to hear from God and we want it now. Diligent searching of the scriptures and patience to hear His Spirit speaking softly to us are too hard. A vision will do. Why study hard when I can wait for a neon writing in the sky that I can then use to exalt myself and prove I am really, really religious. The current drift back toward these practices should not surprise us, it has been a problem since the beginning. Contemplative prayer is a mystical kind of prayer session in which the penitent actively engages in a consciousness-altering methodology in order to better hear the Spirit speaking. As with so many of satan's successful tactics, true contemplative prayer is a hunk of manure with a superficial layer of something that seems good on the outside. Initially, you'd think that contemplative prayer means being quiet, and pondering the Word in a reverential moment. No doubt that was what it was at the beginning. Monks and Anchoresses engaged in contemplative and mystical practices along with their other ascetic exercises and things are coming full circle now.
Asceticism is defined here: "The most blessed of all people are those who exhibited the greatest repentance, with pain and inner contrition, and, in this way, extinguished the proud enemy. They humbled their unruly flesh with asceticism - subdued it to the spirit - and granted the greatest joy to Heaven with their repentance (their return to God). (Elder Paisios). That definition brings to mind this verse: "The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector." (Luke 18:11). And notice who subdued the flesh: man, not the Spirit. The Spirit subdues the flesh (1 Thess. 3:13; 1 Pet. 1:2; Rom. 8:2-4; Gal. 4:6). But in contemplative, mystical practices, man's efforts are supreme.
So the penitents were the guys who wore hairshirts, flailed themselves, and knelt on stones to prove they were more pious than other people. It's the same-old same-old, Pharisaical practice of showy faith and the false belief that what I do gets me into heaven, rather than what I believe. Wrap contemplative prayer in this set of practices, include practitioners such as New Agers and Buddhists, and you've got the picture.
The Fuel Project addressed Catholic practices and the Reformation in their fine series.
Now what does Beth Moore have to do with Contemplative Prayer? In participating in a DVD called "Be Still", about Contemplative Prayer she identifies herself with those who are part of a growing Counter-Reformation movement. The old 'God will let me in because of what I do' and mystical, personal revelation, experiential, vision quest approach to faith (faith by signs and not faith by belief) is becoming increasingly popular even as it has already infiltrated the more conservative realms of the shreds of what used to be a strong fundamentalist faith. Satan got the Catholics long ago. He's got the liberal Christians now. Who is left? Satan knows that the last bastion of people who preach the truth are the fundamentalist, conservative evangelicals huddled at the corners of places like the Southern Baptist Convention and other pockets, so he figures the best way to attract them to falsity is not by luring them back to the obvious errors of New Age, Wiccan, Buddhist etc. Those practices would turn off the conservative evangelicals, identifying it for what it is, false and wrong. Instead, he turns the prideful eyes to a near-Christian practice, embedded in our religious psyche: Catholic and Orthodox mysticism. All that unpleasantness about the Reformation happened so long ago, can't we all just get along? And bingo, we have Beth Moore saying:
"You know, one of the things that time gives us is that it erases the lines in between people so many different sections of the people of God. Because many years later it doesn’t matter any longer that this person was of this practice in the Christian faith and this person of another. Time somehow blurs those lines and we are profoundly moved by the historical narratives of all their lives, of so great a cloud of witnesses; that we can look back on and see what kept them running the race, what kept them running toward the face of Christ at the end of that finish line."
So, 'all that messiness' was so long ago it doesn't count anymore? All the martyrs burned for daring to oppose the Catholic Church's authority can be dismissed, while we embrace the forefathers of this perpetration of evil because we're moved by their historical narrative? I don't think so. Yet suddenly the lines are not blurred when she teaches on generational bondage and advises women how to extract themselves from the historical hold addictions have on them...
In the Be Still promotional writing, the producer says of the practice: "We wanted people to know that you don’t have to be a super scholar or saint to experience this type of listening prayer and intimacy with God.” It is the old, false drift to personal revelation extant of the bible, my truth versus your truth, and experience not scholarship. This appeals to women because they are busy. Either they are at home with kids, in which case their middle name is "run-run-run", or they are working AND raising kids which means they really have little time at all. Being told by famous Christian women that you don't have to study and you can just tune into God's frequency and have it all plopped down into your mind has great appeal. The danger, of course, is that what is plopped down into it may be untruth, but since women are being told they don't have to study, how will they know?
The Be Still producer continues, "Look for times to stop and grab ‘be still’ moments. One of my favorite times is when I pull into the driveway after being out in traffic or running errands. There is a perfect silence just as I turn the car off and the door is still closed. Sometimes I will sit in the driveway with the Lord for five or 10 minutes before I go into the house. We have these moments all throughout our day, but if we don’t make time to learn to recognize them, we won’t notice them and will miss God’s little gifts of silence and peace.”
But we're supposed to meditate on the scriptures! you say. "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success." (Joshua 1:8)
Yes we are supposed to meditate on His Word. Read Charles Spurgeon's explanation of what that means and how to do it. I don't see anything in there about emptying your mind, breathing deeply, and sitting in the driveway.
Just because we can do this: "Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body …let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith.” (Hebrews 10:19-22) doesn't mean we should be calling driveway prayers special intimacy with God. New Covenant access to Him doesn't mean casualness, but that's what intimacy with Him has become. And that is one of the issues I have with Moore. (See part one). And what about the thief on the cross? I don't think he had time to be still and quiet, so he missed out on "God’s little gifts of silence and peace"? Beware teachers who say do it my way or you're doing it wrong. Of contemplative prayer, Beth Moore said; "[I]f we are not still before Him [God], we will never truly know to the depths of the marrow of our bones that He is God. There's got to be a stillness."And that brings us to an even greater concern of her teaching: legalism. You have to listen carefully and do a lot of note-taking because she goes so fast, or listen online and use the pause button a lot, but Beth Moore has a tendency to shape the scriptures away from pure faith and toward legalism. She splits sentences, putting a crowbar between words and inserting things you've 'got' to do. There is a lot of 'do this or else'. Re-read her contemplative prayer quote: "[I]f we are not still before Him, we will never truly know to the depths of the marrow of our bones that He is God. There's got to be a stillness." Tell that to the thief on the cross.
Next essay: Beth Moore's Legalism
Okay, Elizabeth, can I just say I love you! I go to a rather large SBC church here in TN. I really love it and my girls there but, the Beth Moore thing has always driven me crazy! Growing up I was taught and modelled the "right place" for a woman in the church. I get a major check in my spirit when I see a woman "in charge" in a church. They are usually very aggressive, dominant women. Not at all sober and Godly. Beth Moore is that way to me. I've never seen the appeal for her style or content of teaching. The amount of homework her studies require is astounding. You've really been through it if you have finished her Daniel study apparently. Sorry, to me they are all in the same boat, Paula White, Beth Moore and the other wanna bes.
ReplyDeleteWhen I get the wild hair that I need to do a "study" of the Word, the Spirit reminds me all I need is the Word. I do listen to some speakers read some books but ultimately rely on the Word.
I feel the same way. Thanks for this. I was at a conference of hers and could not stand ten minutes of it and left.
DeleteI feel the same way too...my church is a large church also, we have been there 8 years and every womens bible study has been Beth Moore..I got so sick of them, I quit going period! and they are still doing it...what is it about her?? I don't get it, she's getting rich off her books/study guides not to mention the Simulcast live video's they charge for...I refuse to go to any of them!
DeleteHi Anonymous,
DeleteI agree it can get pretty frustrating to be confronted with Beth Moore as the only choice for a bible study all the time. Have you talked with your ladies minister or the person in charge of choosing the studies as to your concerns and made a recommendation for different ones to try? Sometimes a gentle and honest talk can do wonders...
LilyG, lol, thanks! I'm glad something in this series resonated with you. I am sure that Mrs. Moore's heart is in the right place and that actually her teaching at the beginning likely was more solid than it is now. I am sure she has helped a great many in the past. However, it is today that I'm concerned with and today's Beth Moore lessons don't look all that solid to me. There are wonderful expositors out there and I think it is important to listen to solid commentaries as from Matthew Henry and AW Pink, re-read some of the great sermons from Winthrop, Spurgeon, and Edwards in addition to personally studying in the strength of the Spirit. I would heartily recommend preachers Phil Johnson, John MacArthur, Steve Hadley (who is less staid than the former but just as theological, preaching verse by verse in exegetical style). I am also going to close the series with a recommendation of some good female bible teachers, I'm sure there are some out there. Probably Kay Arthur and Ms Demoss... but I haven't studied them thoroughly so I can't say for sure today.
ReplyDeleteI believe that women can teach (not preach) but there is a special danger if they are called to that ministry. I'll be addressing the danger in the essay upcoming on her 'pop psychology." That will be part 6.
Contemplative prayer has always made my hackles rise. Maybe because I came from new age. It was too familiar. I recognized it for what it was, perhaps.
ReplyDeleteContemplative prayer EMPTIES the mind. When we meditate on the Word, we should be FULL of it in our minds. Big difference. I once heard a sermon that talked about the word "meditate" being used in the Bible, that it was kind of like "mull over" or "chew on." Like a cow chewing cud, it swallows it, takes it in. Then it regurgitates, and keeps on chewing on it all day long. This is what meditation on the Word should be like. Not an emptying, but a filling and pondering.
She did issue a mea culpa about her participation in Be Still. She supposedly disclaims all that. And yet again.. if you listen to her speak *for herself* in the context of her seminars she readily references silence, meditation, etc in a way that makes it really sound like she's just fine with it.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, never listened to Beth Moore. But I go to a church that describes itself as "Contemplative" and I think there's things you'ld like about it, based on what you say here. Don't know what Beth Moore teaches, but "there should be some kind of reverential attitude at some point. When I sit down to pray, I take a few deep breaths, to separate in my mind the previous activity from the upcoming one. I clear the cobwebs and prepare my body to respect the moment. I wait a few minutes and let the mundane thoughts bubbling around my mind dissipate..." sounds exactly like what I think contemplative prayer is. Another thing our church does often is something called lectia devina which is a fancy latin word for "read a bible passage several times and think about it." Sometimes the speaker makes suggestions.. Like for the first reading we usually just listen to get a general understanding of the verse. Then on the second reading the speaker might ask us to pay attention to any words or phrases which pop out at us, and on the third reading think about how this applies to you. It varies. They might suggest we think about how this would sound to someone who was actually there at the time (when reading a passage where Jesus is telling a parable, for instance). Or to try to picture the scene in our head. (All of which is not particularly odd...I've heard preachers in many a Baptist sermon say the same things, minus the reading three times.)
ReplyDeleteAnd, I like that our church includes some moments of silence during the service...so we can take in what we've heard, and to give us time for silent prayer.
And I like that every thing that we do we consider carefully. I've never been to a church where more thought was put into WHY we do things like "pass an offering plate," "have age segregated Sunday school," things like that. It's not that having traditions is bad. It's when they become more important that following scripture, or are confused for doctrine, or become rote mindless things we do and don't know why we do them. So many times at our church I hear "This is just sometime we do here...it's not something you have to do, but we find it helpful." It's not legalism. Just as it's not legalism when people say "I find it helpful to keep a prayer journal, or have a daily quiet time, or pray before meals." These are all traditions...and though praying is certainly a command of scripture, these other things aren't. They aren't bad. They can be helpful. But they shouldn't be confused with doctrine either.
There are so many "traditions of men" I've heard taught as doctrine at churches I've attended in the past (though I've also attended many main-stream Baptist churches that try to avoid this "adding things to God's word". People fighting over the order of services, or whether a certain instrument is ok to play in church, as if this was a matter of deep theological importance in stead of something we just need to decide on to have order, but that could be done another way without offending God.
Hi Gale,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment. :)
CLearing the cobwebs and taking a few deep breaths is preparing for prayer or worship, but it is not contemplative prayer. Contemplative prayer is (as defined by CARM)
"Centering prayer is popping up within the emerging church movement. Centering prayer, also known as contemplative prayer and listening prayer, is the practice of relaxing, emptying the mind, and letting one's self find the presence of God within. It involves silence, stillness, patience, sometimes repeating something, and the practice of "not knowing" as the person seeks God's presence."
"Centering prayer is "the opening of mind and heart - our whole being - to God, the Ultimate Mystery, beyond thoughts, words, and emotions." So, it is a non thinking, emptying of the mind that seeks to find God in a way that is "closer than consciousness itself."2 Why? Because, according to the contemplative mystics, absolute truth is unknowable just as God is mystically unknowable" http://carm.org/centering-prayer
It is a Mystic practice based in the occult. God wants us to contact him through his Son Jesus, in prayer, as we meditate on God's word and truth, not by emptying our mind, being still, not thinking, and "feeling" whatever we can spiritually.
More at CARM on why Centering prayer is dangerous and must be avoided: http://carm.org/centering-prayer
As for the Lectio Divina is it also related to mystical and occult practices. The outcome is the same, centering on emptying one's self and waiting for the mystical experience to fill us. It is explained here at GotQuestions
http://www.gotquestions.org/lectio-divina.html
Both Centering Prayer and Lectio Divina (A Catholic practice) are less a tradition of man than a straying from the path toward occultism by swerving into Mysticism first. Sound knowledge should *come* first; then the lasting kind of experience and peace comes as a byproduct of knowing and communing with God rightly. Not the other way around, as Centering prayer and Lectio Divina do. Any church that practices these should be an indicator that they are off course.
We are the body of Christ. Many members, many parts. I love that image of the church. I'm not a contemplative type but that doesn't mean it's useless. As long as we don't leave sound doctrine we need to allow for varied minitries. Think of the prophetess Anna....."She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying." Luke 2:37
ReplyDeleteWhat a weirdo we might say today....be careful, it may be God's way in that person's life. If you've ever read Fox's Book of Martyrs a lot of people were burn, beheaded and ......all because they didn't fit the form of what looked like the current form of worship. That's all I'll say for now. God dealt with me long ago about this in my own life so I'm just sharing what I've experienced. Thanks & Blessings!
There is no such thing as "God's way in that person's life" if that "way" varies from solid doctrine. That is HOW we determine if it is God's way at all, or the devil's way.
DeleteGod's expectation of forms of worship is outlined in the bible, as are His condemnation of false worship forms.
Foxe's Book of Martyrs is not a credible, historical source.
The Bible has a place for women teachers and leaders. In the OT you need to consider women like Deborah [she judged Isreal for 40 yrs]. Queen Ester also played a significant role in delivering her people. These are just a few. While womens' roles in God are different because of thier female character, they are non the less important. We are physcially weaker vessels As Peter says in 1 Peter 3:6 and we are hiers together in Christ. In Titus 2:3-5 It says that aged women are to be teachers of good things. What about the book of Joel that says in the last days God would pour out His Holy Spirit on among others listed [Women]. It says women would prophesy! When you prophesy you are speaking a word for the lord. Forgive me for not quoting the full context of these references. Space is limited. I do not believe comtemplative prayer is focusing on God's word and it should be avoided. Also it should be noted that arguments against Godly women serving thier creator should be avoided. All God's children are to give Him worship and obey Him who died for us! In Him, Jesus Christ, alone is salvation. We will not be saved by bowing down to traditions and vain imaginations of man. Shalom!
DeleteAnonymous, I agree the bible shows us female doing certain things but that that today's people have stretched a bit too far outside the roles God laid down for us. It is obvious from the OT and the NT that women serve in certain roles and that sometimes He gives the spiritual gift of prophecy. Note that Each woman who was given authority was joined to or partnered with a man. Deborah had Barak. Judges 4:4-5, 6-7). The daughters of Philip who prophesied had Philip as father with them. (Acts 21:9). Those are two examples. Miriam and Huldah along with Noadiah were also prophetesses- but Noadiah was false.
DeleteA prophet of God is someone who reveals God, speaks for God, and communicates to people the truths that God wants them to know.
The bible is clear, no woman is to have spiritual authority over a man in a teaching or preaching situation. None of the prophesying women mentioned in the OT and the NT had an ongoing, teaching ministry. Miriam spoke one prophecy to women. Deborah confirmed to Barak a prophecy Barak had already received. Philip's 4 daughters were not called prophetesses but only that at one point they said something from God, they prophesied.
There is no doubt that these women in some measure were endowed with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to say something that was obviously from God. But to take that as license to teach over men is stretching things given the model for the male's and the female's roles as outlined in Genesis 2, and 1st Corinthians- the man is the head, the woman is the helpmeet, in the complementary roles. Teaching to men is reserved for men.
You are so right when you say "We will not be saved by bowing down to traditions and vain imaginations of man."
I sent the article by Ken Silva concerning Beth Moore to my pastor. He forwarded it to one of our elders wives who is the facillitator for all of the Beth Moore studies in our church. Naturally she emailed me back to let me know that I wasn't being loving, she kept saying she couldn't see any love in Mr Silva's article. We are still having her studies in my church. I do not attend. I was a little disappointed in my pastor for not reading it himself although I know he is very busy. He is a good sound bible teacher himself and loves John MacArthur so I am a bit surprised that he allows Mrs Moore's studies. I will pray and wait.
DeleteIn reply to Anonymous, January 10, 2013. I am a woman who just recently came back to the Lord after years of straying, and some of those years in the New Age movement. When I came back to God, a Christian woman told me to listen to Beth Moore (watch her video). I did so and at first was taken with her, but later checked out her teachings on line, and saw another video where she was teaching contemplative prayer, even directing her flock to assemble themselves (men and women) in a North, South, East, West formation before prayer, suggesting doing this would somehow enhance more power into the prayer itself! This is nothing, if not witchcraft! I have tried joining with 3 different Christian denominations, two of which extolled Beth Moore by offering her books for sale and inviting women to come to her Simulcast. In the last church the pastor was giving a sermon on the book of Revelation comparing the 19th Chapter to Star Wars and had his congregation in unholy laughter! I quickly got up and walked out. I have since moved to a KJV Bible-believing Independent Baptist church and there I will stay unless Satan enters this small fold as well. But I really hope the Lord comes for me before that time. I am 69 and I'm sick and tired of what Satan is doing to our churches. May God keep a remnant for Himself in these last days.
DeleteHello Patricia,
DeleteThanks so much for your testimony to the faithfulness of our Holy Spirit to open your eyes. The churches surely are under siege these days. Keep strong in Him and He will help you persevere until the time. I am also sick of all the falseness too, sot I try to stay focused on the good that Jesus is doing and His miracles of regeneration and sanctification. The glorification will come, soon I hope!
Elizabeth, you stated, "The bible is clear, no woman is to have spiritual authority over a man in a teaching or preaching situation." Who does Beth teach? Who is her target audience? Women!
ReplyDeleteWhen she originally began teaching a class at her home church, it was to both men and women. As for today, her target audience might be women, but that doesn't stop her from taking the pulpit at times in various situations. I think that any thinking person would see that Mrs Moore wields a great deal of spiritual, economic, and domestic authority over men.
DeleteThank Goodness there are true believers out there who are willing to step up against FALSE TEACHERS/TEACHINGS and are not afraid of the unschooled opinions of those being led by doctrines of demons. Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees that they were false teachers with false doctrines. The church needs to rise up against the onslaught of the satanic infiltration into Christianity, but will they?
ReplyDeleteoh my goodness!
ReplyDeleteI have enjoyed Beth's studies. I like her stories and I have learnt a lot especially from her Daniel study.
What a nit-picky nasty lot you all are.
How nice for you that your only criteria for determining if a teacher is abusing the holy name of Jesus is whether you "enjoy her stories."
DeleteI realize this thread is old. I just stumbled upon it tonight. I have a lengthy comment, so it will have to be broken up. I may be a Beth Moore fan, I may not, but I do find some of your “discernment” to be faulty in some areas. One is the dignity she (doesn't) display as she teaches. Another is her lack of seminary training. I have not read all of your essays, only the first three, so those are the ones that I would like to speak to. I would just like to ask what you would say about Michal reprimanding David for being "vile" (some translations read "undignified") in his public display of worship towards Christ? (2 Sam. 6:22) I think we have to be careful to put Biblical boundaries around things that are not explicitly stated in Scripture. For example, we don't know how animated Jesus was when He spoke to crowds. We don't know. He might have been very animated and fun. I teach 2nd Graders at a local Christian school and have the most fun when I teach with all my heart. I can get very animated and feel God's Spirit do it in me, and very much feel like it is to God's glory and their edification. I respect all manner of teachers and find that personality and mannerisms are part of God's unique creation. Should it be to the distraction of what God, by His Spirit, is trying to say to His people? No, of course not. I understand your interpretation of the "dignity" that elders are supposed to have, but could it be a bit too stoic when tested against other Scriptures? If stoicism were what God wants (by that I mean, emotionless, always calm, unexcitable speech) from His teachers of His Word, then what would you say to the Father that ran to meet his prodigal son? It was not couth in his day to run. Yet he did. That would not have been dignified. Yet God used it as a picture of Himself. There is a time and a place for everything. There is a time for shouting praises to the Lord, there is a time for solemn prayer and meditation on God's Word. I am just not sure that I am comfortable with your narrow (and somewhat personal preference?) interpretation of what is "dignified" or not.
DeleteNow, as far as her lack of seminary training, I would like to hear your heart about that? Does someone have to be seminary trained in order to have a platform to speak to the Church? I have theological training, so I speak from a positive position towards intensive Bible study, but with that intensive study, comes the need for careful evaluation that we don't lose our first Love in light of "knowing" more Greek words. Paul said of himself that he was a Pharisee of Pharisees. But he counted it all rubbish for the sake of knowing Christ. So, does that mean his years of theological training were null and void? No. Does that mean we should not always be growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus? No. But that doesn't mean that someone is not qualified because they do not have a degree behind their name. They may just love the Lord with all their heart, have the gift of teaching, and may even know Him more intimately than I do without ever holding a Lexicon in their hands. So I would just be careful to use that as a "Biblical" reason for why she should not be doing what she is doing. Very few noble are called. God uses the base to shame the "wise." I am grateful for my "formal" training, but I know some extremely Godly people who have not done any training beyond studying their Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit. I may or may not continue to read the discourses on what parts of her actual teaching you believe are "abusive to the Holy name of Jesus" as mentioned above, but I did want to speak to the two I mentioned. I would say that the first article, which spoke mostly of your personal opinions about her "big hair" and feminism were a bit harsh, even if you do not "understand" them. Would you have a hard time being a friend or bridging that gap with other women who dress/look the same way? Then you may have a hard time with the majority of American women. So lay personal preferences aside when critiquing, it does not please the Lord to speak that way, even of your enemy. To conclude, I am not opposed at all to your ministry, but I do have concerns about your "tone" even via writing...even if she is a false teacher, expose the error and pray for her. Be careful of speaking in area's outside of, as one comment stated, "the facts." It is not your opinion that we seek, it is the discernment that you feel the Lord is giving you. Period. Thank you for your time.
DeleteAnonymous,
DeleteThank you for your comment. I'd ask you to respond to the scriptures in the essay.
Michal tricked her father, forsook David and in the end despised David, not for dancing but for being a king yet lowering himself in humility before God. Yes we want to praise God with all our might like David did. But to take your example, do we strip down to our undies and leap before the Lord while teaching? No of course not. We have to balance the time and place, as you said.
As for the father running to his son - he was not teaching. It was a picture of Gods work in salvation, not teaching. AND it was a parable, not an actual man.
To properly understand the bible we don't take this example or that example and apply them out of context. If we say, 'well David danced so it's OK to teach the word wildly' that would be wrong.
And the Man of Sorrows "might have been" "animated and fun"? Conjecture. We do know that in Luke 2:52 at age 12 Jesus was already "growing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." Even when He braided the three cords to whip the merchants out of the temple in anger, it was controlled.
The scriptures say that teachers of the word should be dignified. That is not my personal opinion nor a narrow interpretation, but absolute truth. It's what God demands.
But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine. 2Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine.... to be self-controlled.. (Titus 2:1-3,5)
There is a time and a place for everything, I agree. Undignified teaching is not the time or place.
Beth Moore is not dignified in the commonly understood sense of the word. She has 'conversations' with God where He allegedly calls her "Honey" and "Babe", she uses ridiculous props like cardboard signs and plastic bracelets, she flippantly jokes about her hair. Yet the bible says-
"Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us." (Titus 2:7-8)
Not dignified. One should not mix irrelevant and demeaning things with teaching of the word. It's that simple.
Anonymous, as to the 2nd comment. You do not need to "hear my heart" about whether a teacher should be trained or not. I'll answer with scripture and from men who have had such training.
Delete1. Should a bible teacher be trained? if so is a seminary training necessary?
I agree that the Spirit is all we need. However to argue for less training is a ridculous argument. In addition, the bible tells us that women are especially susceptible to deception. (1 Peter 3:7, 2 Tim 3:6, 1 Tim 4:7).
Beth Moore had one doctrine class and began teaching men. She "steps outside the boundaries" of scripture when she does that. As for training, for men and women, it's wise and sometimes even necessary. Why?
Why Seminary? Exhibit A: Joel Osteen
http://www.clintarcher.com/why-seminary-exhibit-a-joel-osteen/
Why Seminary? Exhibit B: John MacArthur
http://www.clintarcher.com/why-seminary-exhibit-c-john-macarthur/
Beth Moore's lack of training obviously shows by the fact that she teaches out of context, uses hermeneutic principles poorly if any at all, twists the word, allegorizes the word, and teaches undoctrinal things. It is a classic example of a rebellious woman teaching worldly fables out of her head.
The bible says we are to train for teaching:
1 Timothy 4:7, Heb 5:14
As for my "tone" lol, I refer you to the tone police.
"Tone police are people who focus on (and critique) how something is said, ignoring whether or not it is true. They will discard a true statement simply because they don't like how it was presented."
I started visiting this blog for the first time a few days ago and I am SO grateful for the leading and ministry of The Holy Spirit who encourages those like Elizabeth who need to sound the alarm against false teachings and the teachings of Beth Moore are dangerous. Once we start to revere man [woman] and hold them to a special place above the 'grace and truth' in Jesus Christ, once we start to replace the work of The Holy Spirit who uses only the Word to lead us to the Christ who can save us, then we are definitely on a slippery slope. If you find yourself defending the person instead in spite of the bad teachings be careful. We are to follow the example of Jesus Christ who made Himself of no reputation [Phil 2:7], was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, went to the Cross, all under the dependence, guidance and power of the Spirit of God. Christ is our focus and must always be our focus and the faith once delivered unto the saints is what we are to defend, not man.The teachings and mannerisms of Beth Moore appeal to the flesh and no flesh will stand before God. I don't know of her heart before God. That is between her and God. I do know that there is an infusion of humanistic teachings in the Bible Studies I have taken designed by Beth Moore. We are warned specifically NOT to be swayed by 'philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ" [Colossians 2:8]. NOTE - 'not after Christ'. Again, this is our focus, not man [woman]. I see by the comments in these important blogs backed up with Scripture that some have had their eyes opened or understanding confirmed. I don't see bad-mouthing in these blogs. I see a warning and this is the biblical call on all of us who are truly followers of Jesus Christ to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints Jude 3. For those who believe this is being critical please pray in the Spirit to lead you to the truth. This is too important to start twisting Scripture about 'judge not, condemn not' when calling out bad teachings. It has to be done. Thank you Elizabeth and to all of you whose eyes are opened and loving enough to speak the truth in love.
ReplyDeletehas anyone read Made to Crave and if so what do you think of it?
ReplyDeleteI am not a follower of Beth Moore in the sense that I go looking for her or attending
ReplyDeleteher seminars. However, I've watched her on programs such as Life Today and I don't recall her speaking anything unbiblical. I have a strong sense of discernment and am always looking out for false teaching to protect myself and my family, and I have not once heard her speak anything unbiblical. So what if she
has big hair and a southern accent. Do you know how hard it is for a southern female to listen to a strong Bronx accent or even to always understand an Australian accent if you are not from those places. God gave us our differences, and as long as we are not going against the word of God, we make allowances for things in others that we do not have in ourselves. Some christians are outgoing and extrovert, while others are introverts and don't like crowds. Some are gifted singers while others can't carry a tune, yet they may be talented artists or speakers. I'm not sure about women pastors, but I do beleive that women make excellent teachers of the word of God, as long as they study the word and know the Lord. There have been times when Beth Moore spoke to something I had been going through at the exact right time, a "word in due season". Quit majoring on the minors. Nothing you have said shows me proof that Beth Moore is a false teacher.
Anonymous, thank you for reading. I’m glad you did.
DeleteRelying on memory as to whether Mrs Moore has said anything unbiblical and not actually comparing it to the bible belies your second statement that you have a strong sense of discernment. Further, most successful false teachers always blend truth and lies. What she teaches sounds accurate, but it’s not.
In addition, I’m sorry that nothing I’ve said here has convinced you, because there are several items discussed in this essay which are blatantly unbiblical. Contemplative Prayer is in itself unbiblical. Beth Moore promotes it and teaches it. Secondly, she denies the Reformation and blurs the lines of the Protestant denominations with Catholic. That also is unbiblical. Promoting an unbiblical practice and denying the Reformation is "the minors?"
Beth Moore adds conditions to our relationship to God, such as this that I quoted her saying: “"[I]f we are not still before Him [God], we will never truly know to the depths of the marrow of our bones that He is God. There's got to be a stillness."”
In that one statement she said --
--“we MUST be still” (where is that command in scripture? Nowhere)
--“truly know” (as opposed to ‘know’)
--“to the depths of our marrow of our bones” (as opposed to TRULY knowing? Or just knowing?)
--there’s GOT to be a stillness (or else we won’t know Him? This is what she’s saying)
Last, Anonymous, I didn’t take her to task for having big hair or an accent. You made an dishonest statement there. Taking me to task for a statement I didn't make is a perfect example of a straw man.
Elizabeth, the command in scripture to "be still and know that I am God" is from psalm 46:10. In Psalm 62 "My soul, wait silently for God alone".
DeleteI'm not defending Beth Moore's ministry, as I believe she is a false teacher, just wanted to state that God does indeed command us to be still and know that He is God.
Elizabeth, would you please reply to the previous question in order that we may support our opposition to Beth Moore's teaching concerning "being still?"
DeleteThe question above again rips the verse from its context. I'll use another verse to say what the person above said:
DeleteTherefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48.
Therefore, Nameless Anonymous, just wanted to state that God does indeed command us to be perfect. So go be perfect.
Hmmm. it isn't that simple, is it?
As for the question, I answered the question of how Beth's Moore's use of Be Still isn't biblical in the body of the essay. Within the answer there is also a link to the exposition of the biblical context of Psalm 46:10. If you need more explanation of what 'be still' actually means, I'd suggest these resources:
Exposition by Gill on Psalm46:10 http://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/psalms/46.htm
Explanation by Challies on what is contemplative prayer
http://www.challies.com/articles/the-false-teachers-teresa-of-avila
As for your wanting to support your own opposition to Beth Moore's contemplative practices, don't wait 8 months on my account. Please feel free to go ahead and be Bereans and check the bible for yourselves. it is the more noble path. (Acts 17:11)
Strongs define's the Hebrew word "râphâh'" that is translated as "be still" in Psalms 46:10 as "a primitive root; to slacken (in many applications, literal or figurative):—abate, cease, consume, draw (toward evening), fail, (be) faint, be (wax) feeble, forsake, idle, leave, let alone (go, down), (be) slack, stay, be still, be slothful, (be) weak(-en)." This has nothing to do with emptying your mind. The context of Psalm 46 is that we should fear neither natural catastrophes of this earth nor the ragings of heathen kingdoms, but we should "Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth" (vs. 10) We are to slacken, relax, stop trying to fix things that are God's responsibility to fix because "The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah" (vs. 11). So let's stop misusing Psalm 46:10 and the phrase "be still" to justify contemplative type praying.
ReplyDeleteI urge all true Christians to RUN from Beth Moore's teaching. It's involved in mysticism and nonsense and has nothing to do with the Word of God.
ReplyDeleteSTAY AWAY FROM CONTEMPLATIVE/Centering PRAYER! It's not biblical, it's roots is in mysticism! She's is a false teacher leading CHRISTIANS down a very dangerous path away from God and into the pits of hell.
. Satan is delighted that his age-old seductive weapon of spiritualism is now seeping into our churches.