Friday, June 14, 2013

Examining Beth Moore's statement: the 'Bride is paralyzed by unbelief'

Last night, I was thinking about something Beth Moore said. I want to look closely at the content of what Beth Moore said in this example I will show you. I am personally offended by it and I'm spiritually grieved by it.




In a LifeToday with James Robison, a televised Christian program, Mrs Moore said, and this still is from the video of where she is actually saying it with hand pounding emphasis:

"We could live our whole believing lives through, and never make it to our promised land. We get to heaven and go 'You were not faithful to me! You didn't do what you said you were gonna do!' 'Child, I was holding every single bit of that for you. But I will insist that you cooperate with me.' What it says over and over in this particular chapter, the number one hindrance to our calling becoming a reality, is unbelief. This is the heart of our study. Listen carefully. What God began to say to me about five years ago, and I’m telling you it sent me on such a trek with Him, that my head is still whirling over it. He began to say to me, ”I’m gonna tell you something right now, Beth; and boy, you write this one down. And you say it as often as I give you utterance to say it: ‘My Bride is paralyzed by unbelief. My Bride is paralyzed by unbelief’ ... Starting with you.' " ... Amen."

Let's examine each part of what she said through a biblical lens.

1. Her 'oh, no', scare tactic, try-harder faith is on display here. This is Legalism, also exemplified here. Example; "We could live our whole believing lives through, and never make it to our promised land." Really? We can lose our salvation and not make it to heaven? That's not what the bible says. (John 3:16, Romans 8:38-39, John 10:28-29). Perhaps she was talking about unbelievers, one may protest. No, she said "believing lives." Another may protest that perhaps she meant believers may not make it to our promised land here on earth. But this is not what the bible teaches, either. The bible says we are not promised ease on earth. (John 16:33; Acts 14:22). As a matter of fact this earth isn't even our home. We should not consider earth our promised land whatsoever.

2. She degrades the holy relationship with an almighty God and promotes an earth-centric focus. Example: "We get to heaven and we might say something like this to GOD: "You were not faithful to me! You didn't do what you said you were gonna do!" Really? When we get to heaven we are going to still be greedy for the things on earth? No. (Matthew 6:20-21).

When we get to heaven we are going to argue with God? Not hardly. We will be so overcome by His glory we will fall down. (Revelation 4:10, Isaiah 6:5, Revelation 1:17). Even Daniel when confronted with an angel from heaven, he fell down. (Daniel 10:8). But Mrs Moore teaches that when we get to heaven we're going to cry for the things of earth and make a charge against God for their lack. This is ludicrous. In my opinion, it is blasphemous.

In actuality, Zephaniah tells the people, "Be silent before the Lord GOD! For the day of the LORD is near; the LORD has prepared a sacrifice and consecrated his guests." (Zephaniah 1:7). And the LORD tells Zephaniah to say it again, "Be still before the LORD, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."' (Zephaniah 2:13).

3. She says she is a prophet. No, she doesn't come right out and say "I am a prophet". But she uses personal revelation and biblical language about the context of her supposed revelations to teach people that she is hearing from God and has a message from Him to proclaim. Example: "boy, you write this one down. And you say it as often as I give you utterance to say it:"

Read how God interacted with the Prophets:

"Therefore say to them, Thus declares the LORD of hosts" (Zechariah 1:3)
"Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and those that are to take place after this." (Revelation 1:19)
"Then the LORD replied: "Write down the revelation and make it plain on tablets so that a herald may run with it." (Habakkuk 2:2)
"Therefore speak to them and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD:" (Ezekiel 14:4)
"Boy, you write this one down. And you say it as often as I give you utterance to say it:" (Moore 1:1)

Just kidding on that last one.

Either Beth Moore is a prophet like John and the rest, or she should heed what Ezekiel, a true prophet, has proclaimed from the LORD,

"Her prophets have smeared whitewash for them, seeing false visions and divining lies for them, saying, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,' when the LORD has not spoken." (Ezekiel 22:28).

4. She confuses people with internally contradictory statements. Example: "My Bride is paralyzed by unbelief." First, who is the bride? Let's get clear on that. GotQuestions says, "The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. These are those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and have received eternal life. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27)."

So the Bride is the Church. The Church is the body of believers.

So what Moore is saying is that the global church is in a state of paralyzing unbelief. She says God told her that the church doesn't believe. This is impossible. If you believe, you're a member of Christ's church. If you do not believe, you aren't. She speaks a self-refuting idea.

Also, about being "paralyzed". If we take her statement to be true, then what she is saying is that the global body of believers on earth, the Bride, is not operating in the Holy Spirit. If the Spirit dwells in every true believer, (and He does) and every believer is frozen and paralyzed, (what she says) then this means the Spirit is not operating, or can't. She is saying God said the Spirit is paralyzed, frozen, and inoperable. Can this be so? No. (2 Corinthians 4:6-7). Worse, she is saying Jesus told her this. Worst of all, she said Jesus told her to teach it.

The truth is, the Spirit indwells every believer, (Romans 8:4, Ephesians 1:13b-14), and we already know that the body of Spirit-filled believers is the Bride, so what Moore is saying is that the church isn't working. In fact, the bible says Christ is in us, and Christ is always working. John 5:17 and Ephesians 2:2 testify that all three Persons of the Trinity are always working. To say that He isn't, that the Spirit in His Church is paralyzed, is malignant in the extreme. I'm serious. Only satan would say that the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God is frozen and paalyzed. It is the Modern Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Below, John MacArthur from the linked sermon:
"A way to perceive this would be to see it as a contrast to what we see in Matthew chapter 12, for example. The leaders of Israel committed the unpardonable sin and what was that unpardonable sin? It was attributing to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit. You remember that? It was attributing to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31-32. What’s going on today is the opposite, attributing to the Holy Spirit the work of Satan. That’s what’s going on. Attributing to the Holy Spirit the work of Satan. Satan is alive and at work in deception, false miracles, bad theology, lying visions, lying dreams, lying revelations, deceptive teachers who are in it for the money and power and influence. Satan is alive and well and the work of Satan is being attributed to the Holy Spirit, that is a serious blasphemy just as attributing to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit is a serious blasphemy."
5. Extra-biblical revelation is not to be trusted. I've focused on Moore's claims of personal revelation before, here and here.

What does the bible say about forthcoming revelation of God? (Hint: It ain't happening).
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"But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets." (Revelation 10:7)

Did you catch that? Just as he announced (past tense). God announced to His prophets what He was going to do.  (Amos 3:7). That announcement is contained in the bible. He has been working and will continue to do work. God's work on earth will not be finished until the last trumpet, as Revelation shows us, but His announcement of it was. The revelation of His work on earth is concluded. Yet Beth Moore is making additional proclamations from God. Either God is lying, or Moore is. (Hint: Jesus IS the Truth, and the truth is in Him; John 14:6, Ephesians 4:21).  Friends, the canon is closed and the announcement of what God plans to do was already proclaimed.

Gill's Exposition on Revelation 10:7 says: "As He said to Isaiah 60:3, &c. and Isaiah 66:8; and to Daniel, in Daniel 2:44 Daniel 7:25; and to Zechariah, in Zechariah 14:9, and others;" Beth Moore's name is not on that list.

For those who want to cling to Beth Moore as a teacher and defend her, saying perhaps that she didn't mean what she said: I'm sorry. The bible says that teachers are held to a higher standard. (James 3:1). In order to even BE a teacher one must be mature, self-controlled, vigilant and possess a host of other qualifications that qualify a deacon/teacher/overseer. This is so they will teach rightly and they can spot a false doctrine in the first place- one aspect of protecting and feeding the flock. (Acts 20:28, John 21:17). Teachers are supposed to teach rightly. (2 Timothy 2:15).

Teachers rightly dividing the word for their pupils are raising up pupils who can then turn to the scriptures to see if these things are so. (Acts 17:11). This makes the student stronger. How can a student of Beth Moore examine the scriptures to see if these things are so, if they came from her head, or a vision, and not the bible? They can't. And so in this way, she actually raises up people who do not rely on the word, and are weaker.

The word is all-sufficient. (2 Timothy 3:15-17). That's why we rely on it!

We don't judge  a teacher as false by one thing they said, once. We give the benefit of the doubt, and watch carefully for a long time, comparing their words and teachings to scripture. One misstep does not make a false teacher, perhaps, but a long pattern of variance with the bible, does.

Mrs Moore has passed the time of benefit of doubt and has proven over long years that her words, doctrines and actions are not to be trusted. I am not the only person who has compared what she says and does to the sterling Word and found that she is not to be recommended. The Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry has found the same, and so has Rev. Mike Abendroth of Bethlehem Bible Church, and Rev. Jim Murphy of First Baptist Church at Johnson City, NY, and Shai Linne, and Pastor Tim Challies, and so on.

In this post, I've striven to not only open your eyes to the poor theology and confusing doctrines of Beth Moore, but I've also striven to show you how to parse these things for yourself. To stop and really think about what a teacher is saying, phrase by phrase, and to compare it carefully to the bible. The Bereans sought the scriptures to see if these things were so, and that bespeaks of having a constant stance of asking 'are these things so?' If they believed Paul on his face they would not have sought the scriptures, would they? Constantly testing all things, all spirits, is what we are called to do. (1 John 4:1). And don't stop there. If you have found things that are NOT so, don't keep it to yourself. The church at Thyatira tried to do that, (Revelation 2:20) and were charged by Jesus for it. Speak up. Be brave.

Do not rely on external feelings or teachers who claim to have had an experience. This today from No Compromise Radio, quoting BB Warfield:
Source

"In the history of Christian thought mysticism appears accordingly as that tendency among professing Christians which looks within, that is, to the religious feelings, in its search for God. It supposes itself to contemplate within the soul the movements of the divine Spirit, and finds in them either the sole sources of trustworthy knowledge of God, or the most immediate and convincing sources of that knowledge, or, at least, a coordinate source of it alongside of the written Word . . . There is nothing more important in the age in which we live than to bear constantly in mind that all the Christianity of Christianity rests precisely on “external authority.” (Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield, The Biblical Review, ii. (New York: The Biblical Seminary, 1917), 169-191.)

And what is that external authority? The One True God as revealed in the Holy Bible. Sola Scriptura!
Source

46 comments:

  1. I agree that Ms. Moore is a mixed up woman, and worse, she is making merchandise of her brand of "Christianity"...another gospel which isn't the gospel.

    I was once on a "Christian" message board and talked about the errors of Beth Moore's ways, and I'll tell you, HER followers were her followers, not necessarily the followers of Christ (they might have been, God only knows for sure) but these people did not want to hear the truth but called me a "gossip" for talking about her scriptural inaccuracies. That one threw me for a loop. Yep, gossip, that's how she handles those who would say anything against her, they are gossiping about her. Sigh, I have to shake my head and I could make some "blonde jokes" lol, oh well...

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    1. Hi Susan,

      Thank you for standing up for the truth of scripture in the face of Beth Moore believers. I appreciate that there are biblically-minded women like you.

      I was shocked when I moved to GA and found the embeddedness of Beth Moore studies in my church and the plethora of Beth Moore bible studies all around. I wrote that off as a Southern thing for a while, but after I attended one of her conferences and spoke with many women tho "follow" Beth Moore from conference to conference, I was astounded and realized the wider impact on the faith of all her hoopla.

      I have been the recipient of the same, people won't hear anything against a favorite teacher of any kind, they say we're gossiping, judging, or attacking. Oy.

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    2. I was brought up SDA (Seventh day Adventist) and then married a Mormon and then went into the New Age stuff...sigh, so I've seen all kinds of doctrinal errors, but wanted to mention SDA because it had a "woman prophetess" for it's founder, had roots in the Millerites Movement (which also had JW connection). Ellen G White thought she heard from God on bringing back legalism through vegetarian health laws and/or clean and unclean meats(if you chose to eat meat), and other legal requirements to prove allegiance to God, so it is different from BM and yet it is still "a different gospel" so the devil has a whole cornucopia on his table of false beliefs to choose from. I can hope that these followers will realize their error and make their allegiance God alone and every man and woman a liar if it isn't truly of His word, to reject falsehood no matter how much they want to like a person.

      Whether a person believes these are the end times or not the Lord will reveal the truth of it in His time, yet let us be accounted to be faithful to watch and pray and keep telling the truth even if it gets us killed.

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    3. Thank you for your testimony Susan. It's always more powerful from someone who's been there. Praise His wonderful name He drew you out of the darkness! Your words are so true, yes, let us be accounted to be faithful...

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    4. I haven't read the whole article but I am VERY discouraged in what I did read. Do you think Beth actually got up there knowing she was teaching in error? AND ALL PEOPLE DO because we are human. Some are just farther along in their spiritual walk. I know I said things in ignorance when I was a new Christian.I know Beth is not a new Christian but she is like most of us 'a little mixed up from being falsely indoctorinated years ago. I told my pastor the other day I thought he was the modern day Moses trying to lead us out of bondage and into the promised land even here on earth we can have a little piece of heaven as we walkand talk with God everyday. I just don't believe this talking about Beth especially online is of God . Remember what the Bible says about our speech and How will people KNOW we are Christians? By the LOVE we have one for another.Thisis not mimicking Jesus at all. You guys should know better. We are to pray for and encourage each other in the things of the Lord. Not start a religious war on the internet. This is family business and should be treated as such. If I wasn't already a believer how would this lead me to want to become one?

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    5. "I haven't read the whole article but I am VERY discouraged in what I did read."
      I’m sorry you only read it partially. I'm sorry you failed to respond to even one sentence, scripture, or thought in this article. That is discouraging to me, for you. I’m sorry you’re discouraged, I really am.

      Your discouragement discourages me, first because either I failed to show you the clear truth about Beth Moore, or you haven’t made use of the dose of discernment the Holy Spirit has given you. I’m also discouraged because you’re being emotional and not biblical. There is very much heat in your comment but no Light. We women have to stop reacting that way. It dishonors Jesus.

      "Do you think Beth actually got up there knowing she was teaching in error? "
      Some false teachers know they are lying. (1 Timothy 6:5). Others don’t know they are teaching falsely, because they have let slip their moorings and have drifted (Hebrews 2:1).

      "Some are just farther along in their spiritual walk. I know I said things in ignorance when I was a new Christian.I know Beth is not a new Christian but she is like most of us 'a little mixed up from being falsely indoctorinated years ago"

      So how many years do we wait until Beth Moore gets it right? She’s 57 years old! She committed her life to vocational ministry 40 years ago! Anonymous, the bible is clear that there is a high standard for overseers/deacons/leaders/wives of same, and they are outlined in 1 Timothy 3:1-18. Please read it.

      “Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.” James 3:1

      In your attempt to be overly generous (and unbiblically loose) toward Moore, you disrespect Jesus and His standards. Here is a link that might illuminate things for you: How to Identify False Teachers
      http://www.dennyburk.com/how-to-identify-false-teachers/

      "I just don't believe this talking about Beth especially online is of God . Remember what the Bible says about our speech and How will people KNOW we are Christians? By the LOVE we have one for another."

      Really? You “just don’t believe” that people should love you enough to tell you when you’re falling into a snare of false teachings and following an unworthy leader? Where does it say that in the bible? It’s nice to have heated opinions like you do, but you need to master them and look to the holy word to see what we should do in situations like these, in examining false teachings or teachers. I LOVE you enough to show you from the bible when to be warned by a teacher’s teachings, and to urge you to test yourself and them so as not to stray from the faith. Don’t rely on the trite ‘LOVE" mantra for failing your own duty to vigorously test a teacher (Acts 17:11) and yourself. (2 Cor 13:5)

      "If I wasn't already a believer how would this lead me to want to become one?"
      How do you know you’re a believer?

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    6. I'm a few years late, Elizabeth, but Amen! Was looking for what heretics actually encourage "The Shack" now that it will be released next week and came across your article. I have struggled with Beth Moore for years and finally gave up on her. We are supposed to have enough Bible knowledge to discern fact from fiction and point it out. Keep up the good work. Just read somewhere that you don't get truth from fiction. God Bless you. Another Elizabeth

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  2. thank you Elizabeth for blogging God's eternal truth. I look forward each day to reading your blog. I use to listen and read everything that was labeled "christian" but thanks to my pastor and bloggers like you I now (hopefully) have a bit more discernment! until we meet! kim

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    1. Thank the Lord for your pastor! Sounds like you have a very discerning and loving under-shepherd. Be sure to pray for him. Thanks for reading and for commenting. I appreciate knowing that anything I write may help someone. :)

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  3. Some of Moore's followers are downright cultic. Of all the articles I have written on my blog, nothing has ever gotten as many nasty, rude, and attacking comments as those which expose the false teachings of Beth Moore. I was even told that I the reason I didn't like Moore was most likely because I had once been hurt by a southern woman!

    Moore is dangerous. Simple as that.

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  4. frankly, i have only heard the name beth moore - i follow no man. didn't our Master say: "Follow Me"
    if we take HIM at HIS word which should be TRUTH, we should be on the right path. John 17:1 "eternal life is to KNOW Him" it takes separation from others to get to KNOW Him - if i am distracted by listening to others opinion of HIM and what HE said, it isn't TRUTH.
    let's take a look at Is. 6 - the whole chapter - it isn't long - He states that "we cannot hear" not many hear what the Spirit is saying because our spirits are filled up with what other men are saying - Our Master reminds us of this scripture in 3 of the gospels - He provides us with a parable of this in HIS teaching about seed being planted on different soils - only on good soil does HIS word take root and grow - the letters to the churches, HE states - "let him who has ears to hear"
    not all have the ears to hear; if i have not asked HIM to remove all false teaching from me and give me ONLY His Truth, i may be deceived and not be hearing -
    how do we get to know another - by spending time with them - not with our brother or sister talking about them. we find the TRUTH directly from the individual's mouth as HE speaks to us. we know that HIS sheep know HIS voice and another they will not follow. maybe we need to rid ourselves of those other voices.

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    1. it is tempting, I agree. And you're right that we should always study the bible on our own under prayer and submission tot he Spirit who guides us into truth (John 16:13).

      But Jesus raises up men for the benefit of the church and His glory. Apostle Paul recommended certain teachers and cursed certain teachers. teachers are important to the sheep and tot he church. Where would we be without John Huss, Wycliffe, Calvin, Spurgeon, Lloyd-Jones, MacArthur? We have teachers for a reason, and fear of false doctrine should not bring us to the point of throwing all of them out. We should trust the Spirit! He has delivered us FROM untruth INTO truth. Trust Him, ask for wisdom and discernment, and study hard. The disciplined life of a follower of Jesus is filled with study and this inspires us to faith in action, bearing fruit for His name!

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    2. elizabeth, i didn't even think you would reply to my comments, let alone publish it. believe me, i didn't get here on my own - i could not have made it - and probably you don't understand what i was saying - the hearing part is the problem - did you read Is. 6 and the references that Our Master made to it in the gospels? they are referenced in most bibles. i just kept reading or listening to the gospels over and over - i believe it was a different time than when we had the teachers you mentioned - we didn't have much of the scriptures when paul taught. and it probably isn't for everyone - as i mentioned, i didn't get here on my own. i sampled a lot of the teachers out there - i am blessed and i trust you are blessed - again, thanks for responding -

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    3. Thanks for the reference to Isaiah 6, it is a favorite chapter of mine. In this chapter Isaiah gets his commission, and in a vision where he is in the holy temple, no less. He is to foretell the doom of the Israelites, and do so for the rest of his life ("till the cities lay waste"). The problem was, that many heard the sound of God's word, but did not feel the power of it, nor did they acknowledge Him. God was telling Isaiah that He was going to give men up to blindness of mind, because they will not receive the truth in the love of it. This let Isaiah know that he would have no converts. John MacArthur preached on this same notion, calling it the 'wrath of abandonment' as seen not only in Isaiah but in the NT book of Romans. He believes, as many others do, that God has given the U.S. over.

      Matthew Henry's commentary reassures us, "Christians need not fear this awful doom, which is a spiritual judgment on those who will still hold fast their sins."

      Yes, there are many bad teachers. But God has raised up good teachers, as shown in the example if Isaiah himself. Even in a time of wrath and abandonment, He sent an anointed one to preach to the people, and today he has done the same. He raises up good teachers to edify us or in some cases, remind us of the wrath of God. Either way, God is faithful As He said in Ezekiel 2, the entire chapter pasted below, whether they hear or refuse to hear, they will know a prophet has been among them. You see, He not only sends prophets and teachers for our edification, but He does so on account of His OWN Holy name- so that they will be without excuse.
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      And he said to me, “Son of man,a stand on your feet, and I will speak with you.” 2And as he spoke to me, the Spirit entered into me and set me on my feet, and I heard him speaking to me. 3And he said to me, “Son of man, I send you to the people of Israel, to nations of rebels, who have rebelled against me. They and their fathers have transgressed against me to this very day. 4The descendants also are impudent and stubborn: I send you to them, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God.’ 5And whether they hear or refuse to hear (for they are a rebellious house) they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6And you, son of man, be not afraid of them, nor be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions.b Be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, for they are a rebellious house. 7And you shall speak my words to them, whether they hear or refuse to hear, for they are a rebellious house.

      8“But you, son of man, hear what I say to you. Be not rebellious like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.” 9And when I looked, behold, a hand was stretched out to me, and behold, a scroll of a book was in it. 10And he spread it before me. And it had writing on the front and on the back, and there were written on it words of lamentation and mourning and woe.

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  5. This woman is just another darling of the James Robison show. Among other appearing are Creflo send me your dollars and anybody willing to prostitute themselves on his nauseating program. I personally cannot stand the sight of Moore or Robison. How anybody can listen to these two astounds me.

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  6. what beth moore say is right "the bride is paralyzed" by unbelieving people but she and others who sit on their thrones and have following is just that. people being mislead by preachings of men who themselves don't follow the Word of God cause many to belive only what the preacher says. people get a king james bible if you don't have one and ask the Lord to guide you and listen to Him and become harmonious with Him rather than with wordly preachers then you'll feel better on how your relationship grows with the Lordand by what people like beth moore,or james robison has to say because,once again ,its your relationship with the LOrd that counts not so much what a preacher says, and i'll be honest i don't always agree with what my preacher says either.were everyone owned a king james bible and studied it not only would you see a change in attitude but a change in your relationships and non-believers would give pause,shalom

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    1. Hi Anonymous,

      Beth Moore is not right when she says the bride is paralyzed by unbelief. If you believe, you are part of the Bride. If you do not believe, you are not part of the Bride. It is impossible to say that the Bride is in a state of unbelief, else she would not be His bride. Jesus is not marrying unbelievers. That would nullify everything he died for.

      I agree with you that people should read their bibles, and that they should test what their preacher, or any preacher says, against it.

      There are many good translations out there, the King James is not the only authoritative one, nor even the best one. Here are a couple of essays

      What is the King James Version?
      http://www.gotquestions.org/King-James-Version-KJV.html

      What are the different bible versions?
      http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-versions.html

      What is the Geneva Bible?
      http://www.gotquestions.org/Geneva-Bible.html

      Is the King James Version the only bible we should use?
      http://www.gotquestions.org/KJV-only.html

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    2. the bride is in a state of unbelief,why, because look at all the bible translations we have and use ,and it doesn't help when a preacher promotes his own study bible and that the new translation are false,moreso written by lucifer himself and if you think what i'm saying is a joke then take a king james bible and compare it to niv, or nasb , better yet or applified translation ,just the title alone says enough. then lets talk about all the wordly televangalist,they talk but do they walk,each and everyone of them talks about the blessings you'll recieve or how things go your way,while they're reaching out for your money and if their not doing that they're on some journey to another conference or revival. heres the classic one each of thesesame preachers whose reaching out for your money,living lavishly and dare you to say something about it and when do any of these ptreacher have time to sit down and have heart-to-heart talk with God and Jesus. i don't listen to them,i go the Lord for answers and my bible and yes i refuse to allow any other translation,simply because His word was grounded and rooted in His heart before lucifer decided to oppose God,and how does a created being throw God out of heaven,peter

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    3. Blindly sticking to "KJV-Only" is idolatry- here's how. If saying that the KJV is better because it is from the Textus Receptus, then the NKJV is also from the Textus Receptus, but most KJV-Onlies reject the New King James Version too.

      If saying that the KJV is better because it was earliest, this also is not true because the Geneva was published first, by decades and was widely used by the Puritans and many others, and is still today used because it is so well written and known for its deep and well-done study notes.

      You're right to be skeptical, especially in these days, at the many translations and books purporting to be bibles. I am working on a blog post this minute that examines the "Religion free" bible, lol.

      However, a careful student of the word will note that there ARE other valid and beneficial versions of the bible not "written by Lucifer." It is just ludicrous to reject them all out of hand and idolatrous to stick to one version for the wrong reasons. This elevates the translation itself above God.

      "Test all things", 1 Thess 5:21

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    4. I purchased an NIV BC.. before I came to Christ hence BC... I used it to study for 20 years. Then I was told about some inaccuracies with it... It made me mad at first ... then I checked into it.. found that there is a major problem with that version. Even put in question the deity of Christ. If God's Word is to be believed as 2 Tim 3;16 says it is.. then cannot God preserve His word in a version. As in the John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
      I think that as the Bereans always do... is search the scriptures... and if someone who isn't a believer and comes across something like that of the "Message"... and can relate with it because of it's new age terms...and not come to Christ because it is a "translation" of a man... I account this as dangerous. Most versions out there should be scrutinized.. and researched. As Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city and from the things which are written in this book. If not one jot or tittle will pass from the law as in Matt 5:18... should we not seriously take in account which "version" is being studied. Once it is pointed out the problems of the modern versions, we are all held accountable like that in exposing false teachers... we are also responsible for exposing false teachings in our Bible version's we have so embraced. Be careful... study what is missing in the modern versions... do a deep study on it for yourself. and ponder.... if you do not... then we are no better than the people that fail to expose the false teachers by name.

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    5. Amen! http://nuggets4u.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/unbelief-what-is-it-how-to-recognize-it/

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  7. amen amen amen!! Beth Moore is the reason I left my church after 10 years of membership. The Sunday service had become "warm-fuzzy-feelgood-be-a-better-me" sermonetts ala Olsteen style (the pastor even started that "this is my bible" thing Joel does). The wednesday night teaching was so good, and became the only day of the week I'd go. And then....the pastor shot that down and decided to do Beth Moore studies. That was my cue to take a hike. I had put up with the "speaking in tongues" that went on NOT according to how Paul said it should, I had begun to tire of the "elitist" attitude from the pastor's wife (not to mention the Tammy Faye Bakker-two inch thick make-up that was such a turn off, and that hollier than thou attitude). Beth Moore was the final straw. I emailed my dear friend in the church (I love so many of them still) and told her that it had gotten to the point that the church was not only no longer feeding me, but they were stepping into area's of heretical teaching. She "tut-tuted" me and said "this is the best church in town, and I don't think Pastor Mike would lead us astray". well, Pastor Mike is also her nephew. Nephew or not, if its contrary to scripture, I'm not drinking it. Period. We watchmen, for the most part are ignored by those who are supposed to be on the SAME TEAM! or we're marginalized, or called crazy. It broke my heart to leave, but leave I did. When it gets to the point that I am better feeding myself than my pastor, time to scram. Good article.

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  8. God foresaw this happening (Who Knew? LOL) 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
    I, too, left a church that had become "seeker sensitive" where the message was watered down and it became "all about me". The last Easter message I had to sit through and cringe was called, "The Man in the Mirror" (yes they did sing the Michael Jackson song) and it was all about self-worth and how to increase your self-worth. Really? Where was the message about how Jesus suffered and died and took on my sin? It was another "all about me" message. No room for Jesus or the Gospel at one of the holiest days of the year. After this fiasco, I was finally able to convince my husband that Jesus had left the building and it was time to go. People today want entertainment and self-help. But without the gospel there will be no repetence and no need for a savior. There are many people sitting in churches today that are going to hell and they don't know it. It is so sad. Without repentence there is no change from the Holy Spirit in their lives. Preachers are not preaching the Word that will change lives and make them realize the need for a savior. Probably for fear to offend people and have their pews empty and have less tithes. They preach a false doctrine of prosperityThese preachers are going to stand before the Holy One and will have to answer for their actions. I feel sorry for them on that day.

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  9. Being that I am a part of the "Bride of Christ" I am thereby qualified to say, I am not paralyzed. I have attended some of her video Bible Studies. I did enjoy the one concerning Esther. But...I grew uncomfortable when she in another study lumped Catholics in the mix. But there came the "last straw" when she and Priscilla Shirer (Tony Evans daughter) did a study together. I missed the first week and supposedly they gave a disclaimer of sorts that there is no New Revelation. But I was able to go the following week and that is exactly what they did. They talked about new revelations. I never went back nor will I ever attend another of both of these womens bible studies.

    I sent an email to Beth's web site and was assured that I would eventually hear back something. I never heard anything. I didn't expect to hear from anyone on her staff and much less from her. I did put my 2cents worth in though concerning her unbiblical teaching. She always tried to appear as though she was just a little Baptist girl from Texas. She left First Baptist Houston. She has presented herself as "thus sayeth Beth." She will stand before God someday like the rest of us.

    Sharon Griffith
    Benton, Louisiana

    A most alive Daughter of God and also part of the Bride of Christ

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    1. Thank you so much Sharon. Hear Hear.

      I wrote about Mrs Shirer here
      http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2012/10/introducing-priscilla-shirer-and-jesus.html

      It was written about Mrs Shirer also that

      "Priscilla Shirer, daughter of popular preacher Tony Evans, is also her own cottage industry. "Conservative Bible teachers like Shirer have built a new paradigm for feminine preaching, an ingenious blend of traditional revivalism, modern therapeutic culture and the gabby intimacy of Oprah. ... This theology has spawned a subculture of Bible studies, conferences, ministries, religious retreats and literature ranging from Christian fitness books to Christian romance novels, all produced by and for evangelical women." Source: NY Times, of all places.

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  10. you have taken everything she said out of context. she never said we (the body) didn't have the holy spirit within us. she said we weren't using it. using the power within us.and she's absoluately correct. the church doesn't have the healings as it should. people are sick all the time, they don't prosper. everything that was provided at the cross is not evident. she was speaking in her usual "casual" style. as in we "could" have those conversations with god. like we didn't have life here the way we should have. or thought we should have. it could have been better. i'm sure we'll have questions when we get there. why not? he's our father and we're his children. this website does nothing but criticize pastors. that isn't your job. correction is done by the word, and the holy spirit. this is a shame.

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    1. Anonymous, No, I am not taking anything out of context. I transcribed what she said exactly. She said Jesus told her these words, which is problematic in the first place, and listen closely please, "MY BRIDE. IS PARALYZED. BY UNBELIEF.

      I explained in the piece using scriptures, that the bride is the church. paralyzed means not moving, and unbelief is self-explanatory. Moore is saying the Church of Jesus Christ does not believe and the Holy Spirit is not moving in His church. That is what she said. However it is not true. If someone does not believe, they are not the Bride. That Jesus would say that His church doesn't believe is a contradiction, and if there is a contradiction, you know that it is not on the part of Jesus.

      Please understand, speaking "casually" in no way excuses her. She is teaching the body of believers with the holy word of God, and has cause to be MORE formal and careful than less. (James 3:1)

      She is teaching out of her head, saying that Jesus told her something that wasn't in the bible, and to teach it to the brethren. So she is saying she has new scripture to teach, a new thought, a new thing. This would be scripture, authoritative and infallible. Yet Moore is not a first century apostle and canon of the bible is closed. Therefore, by biblical standards, she is a false prophet and a false teacher.

      Jeremiah 23:31 - Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

      Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

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    2. Why do you think we are supposed to prosper? Tell the really faithful Chrisitans in Africa and the third world countries that they are supposed to be prospering. Many of them are being persecuted and even starving. I guess they aren't doing church Beth style.

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    3. One reviewer of her book, So Long, Insecurity, says this of Moore's brand of Christianity:

      "Another problem is that this is not a book that can be handed to anyone. This is a very western hemisphere, American brand of Christianity kind of book. As much as Moore tries to make the case that this issue of insecurity is a universal issue for women, I’m not convinced. I really believe that Moore made a mistake when she based everything on her own experience and the experiences of the men and women who read her blog, rather than allowing the book to grow from a universal truth found in God’s word."
      http://southernbaptistgirl.wordpress.com/2010/04/05/are-you-a-spiritual-cinderella/

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  11. Gracious me, is it ever wonderful to read the godly women who have replied on this thread. What encouragement that there is still discernment within women in the Body of Christ. Every time I pull an Elijah and say "I am the only one left" I stumble upon encouragement such as this. Now, about Beth. I became aware of Beth Moore as a young Christian, and her teachings were so appealing to me. The more I matured and the more I was saturated in the Word, the less I could stand to listen to her. Now, you couldn't get me to listen to her not just because of her Biblical inaccuracies, but because she is a champion of the contemplative movement who is now full-on teaching new revelation theology. One poster is correct that she did leave Houston First Baptist Church, but by her own choosing to attend her son in law's newly formed church. I was in attendance on her last Sunday at HFBC. They would have kept her if they could, and she joined the pastor to pray "over" the members of the Southern Baptist Convention several months back. And now, I am leaving HFBC not because Beth left, but because the entire women's ministry is infected with the new revelation teachings. So much so, one woman who is touted to be a Biblical teaching giant actually quoted Jesus Calling on three separate occasions on three different Sundays. I've had enough.

    The saddest part of the whole thing is the division that Beth is creating in the Body of Christ when those with discernment speak against her teachings. Beth followers can be very brutal in their reactions whenever she is criticized in the least.

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    1. Thank *you,* Anonymous, for your wise words of caution and discernment.

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  12. http://nuggets4u.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/unbelief-what-is-it-how-to-recognize-it/
    A very revealing teaching on unbelief

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  13. A couple of folks posted on my Facebook page this week that Beth Moore's books (or many of them) are free for downloading. When I told one who posted the link on my page that I wasn't a fan of hers, she wanted to know why. I told her that I didn't care for her teaching, that I disagreed with many of her interpretations of the Bible, and that I also just could not relate to her "I'm your best girlfriend" style. Additionally, the Bible study I did attend that followed one of her books was very disconcerting to me, not only because of how she interpreted Bible verses,but also because I felt like she made fun of her husband in front of a full audience, and I just did not appreciate it. I just cannot fathom why more women are not doing their own Bible study instead of taking Beth Moore's word for it. One of my high school friends quit associating with me when she found out I didn't care for Beth Moore. I am just dumbfounded that more people are not seeing how she is misleading so many folks.

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  14. The free book posts and me knowing a little bit about how Beth Moore is having special revelations by God is why I am searching articles right now. Same here, "why dont you listen/read/like Beth Moore" type comments. I have not listened to her or gotten involved with anything by her, thankfully, because I believe the discernment ministries who say she is not biblical. I would rather not go that direction no matter how many people like her. My first experience with the nondiscerning Christians was when I was first saved, I was recommended to read "The Shack" I read it, up until page 100, then I threw it across the room. That is not the God of the bible. People still argue with me that that is a good "Christian" book. So I am very careful about which spiritual food I take in.

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    1. Hello Anonymous,

      I'm glad you never got involved with any Beth Moore studies. I'm also glad you didn't like The Shack. I didn't either. As far as believing discernment ministries, it's good to get a heads up from them, including mine, but always check a teacher against the bible yourself. Paul complimented the Bereans for studying the scriptures to see if what Paul taught was so. You should always pray for wisdom and then check against the bible.

      I agree it's wise to be careful about what spiritual food to take in. Christ bought us for a price and we are His body now.

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    2. Hi?...have you ever approached Beth herself and let her speak on her behalf?...have you confronted her with her possible errors?

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    3. Hi Nina,

      No. I have not approached Beth Moore and confronted her with her errors. I am assuming you are referring to the verse in Matthew 18:15-17, (but I'm not sure since you didn't refer to scripture) where it says:

      "“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

      You've misapplied the standard described above to the wrong situation at the wrong time. If you kindly read the following link, you'll understand why.
      http://legacy.thegospelcoalition.org/themelios/article/editorial_on_abusing_matthew_18

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    4. ephesians 5 doesn't say the church is the Bride, it says love wives LIKE Christ loves the church. The Bride is Identified as the New Jerusalem in Revelation.

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    5. Anonymous, here is part of an essay explaining the comparison of the Ephesians bride to the bride of Christ. Please consider. And, there's more at the link

      "What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ?"

      Answer: The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. These are those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and have received eternal life. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-2).

      At that time, all believers will inhabit the heavenly city known as New Jerusalem, also called “the holy city” in Revelation 21:2 and 10. The New Jerusalem is not the church, but it takes on the church’s characteristics.

      Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/bride-of-Christ.html#ixzz3BX3iIhaf

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  15. Thanks for this article. I agree with you. Beth Moore has always given me an uneasy consternation. Sometimes difficult to put my finger on why specifically. Other times it's so obvious, and it makes me feel ill that so many well-meaning ladies are listening to her.
    One point, though, ( not meaning to pick at you)... in the paragraph leading into the John MacArthur quote you said,
    "John 5:17 and Ephesians 2:2 testify that all three persons of the Trinity are always working." I believe that Ephesians 2:2 should not be used here as "the spirit" here is referring to "the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience". I would not want to credit the Holy Spirit with what satan is doing.
    If I am misunderstanding, please explain. Thanks.

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    1. Thanks so much Chris. You're right, Eph 2 isn't the correct scripture to use here. thanks you so much for pointing it out

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  16. All I hear today is the prosperity gospel and feel good preaching , rarely do I hear the bible,blood and blessed hope ,I can't remember the last time I heard a hellfire and brimstone repentance sermon , I guess nobody wants to offend anybody , give me the old days when preachers sternly warned of the consequences of SIN the church today is lukewarm and asleep and is being over taken in this country by atheists ,gays and other loud wicked types ,we need to stand up and let our voices be heard before its too late and our country is gone or we are spewed out of the our creators mouth !

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  17. Having actually been through Beth Moore Bible studies along with many others, she is a humble, scripturally correct and well educated teacher. Not a cultic Beth Moore follower here like you guys talk about.. I can tell you that much of what you state is twisted and out of context but then again it is obvious you are trying to do that. She backs up her teaching with scripture ( always going back to the Hebrew and Greek translations to get the true meaning ) and implores all to also check her teaching with scripture. Sites like this are a dime a dozen and as dangerous as the other side of the coin with the Joel Osteen type ministries. Her heart is woman's ministry and to teach with a real passion of God's word.

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    1. Hi Anonymous,

      I have been through two of her studies AND attended a Living Proof conference AND read two of her books AND watched many episodes of LifeToday with Beth Moore.

      Let's take your assertions one by one, notwithstanding you avoided the entire point of the essay, which is that she claims to have visions from Jesus. So as to her "humility" that is a big NO. Paul was lifted to another dimension and saw inexpressible things and spoke with Jesus in the heavenlies. Yet he refused even to refer to himself while he was (reluctantly) mentioning the event. (2 Cor 12:2-4). And remember, Paul said the things he heard in the other dimension were "inexpressible which no man is allowed to speak."

      So Beth gets visions all the time, can't wait to brag about them, and repeats everything the Lord allegedly said to her, even telling her to teach them to you. Sure, Moore will say "I'm so humble, a pipsqueak of a woman, I have no idea why Jesus chose ME to have this vision, and why He told ME to come back and tell you, but I better obey, cuz I love my boyfriend Jesus!" It's a humblebrag. It isn't scriptural, not the vision, nor her humility.

      Moore is not educated. She took one doctrine class back in her youth and proceeded to teach from there. She has not submitted herself to any regular, ongoing educational series or teacher. She doesn't even submit herself to her husband. She has taken the pulpit for Sunday morning services and preached, which is a usurpation of the God-given role and which scripture that you claim she loves so much FORBIDS her to do. This isn't humility. It's pride. And rebellion.

      Anyone can look up the Greek. She does it incorrectly. In the LP conference I attended, she looked up all words for 'Hold Fast", irrespective of the immediate context in which the word was embedded. A phrase she said came to her in a whisper when she asked the Lord what to teach us, by the way, demonstrating her disregard for proper handling of scripture. She "taught" us all the Greek for 'hold fast', ignoring the context and in several cases choosing the hold fast definition when the context supported a different definition for the word. Any idiot can look up the Greek, handling it properly is where wisdom comes in.

      And therein lays the other non-scriptural issue- she teaches out of her visions, not out of the word. She does not believe scripture is sufficient, not when she says unscriptural things that "Jesus" allegedly told her.

      As for what you say I have twisted out of context, please quote where I did that and I will take a look, or at least explain my thinking. I'd appreciate if you would back up your charge and we can then reason together.

      I know Moore implores us to look back into scripture to check her. I did. And this essay is what I found.

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  18. This is sad. Beth Moore professes Jesus as Lord and yet you openly judge here. Pretty sure the Bible tells us how to handle things. So let me ask YOU a ? What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit living in us? Jesus said he was being sent to remind us and to teach and comfort us. Why would Jesus send a spirit that has nothing to say. No where in the Bibke dies it say God is finished talking. And in Revelation it talks about churches being judged for many things including unbelief. Jesus chastised the apostles for unbelief many times. So you think YOU have it all figured out now? I belief the midern church us full of unbelief these days.... Your theology has lead us to a world falling apart. Open your eyes.... Only a blind man would think the American church as a whole is a believing church these days.

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    1. RC said: “This is sad.”
      I agree, the presence of false teachers in the visible church is sad. Sadder are those who can’t spot them when they become obvious.

      RC said: “Beth Moore professes Jesus as Lord”
      So what, Moore professes Jesus as Lord? Brigham Young and Mormons profess Jesus as Lord. The pope professes Jesus as Lord. Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,” Mt 7:21a. Accepting any old profession of Jesus is not the biblical benchmark to determine a false teacher. Comparing what they teach to scripture is.

      RC said: “and yet you openly judge here.”
      Of course I do. Not only openly, but loudly. BETH MOORE IS A FALSE TEACHER. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:15 “I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say.”

      RC said: “Pretty sure the Bible tells us how to handle things.”
      Yes it does. I’d suggest going to this page to learn what the Bible says for how to discern a false teaching when it hits you in the face:
      http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/discerntestjudge.html
      Or this page
      http://www.gotquestions.org/false-teachers.html

      RC said: “So let me ask YOU a ? What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit living in us?”
      The ministry of the Spirit is explained here:
      http://www.gty.org/resources/positions/P15/the-ministry-of-the-holy-spirit

      RC said: “Jesus said he was being sent to remind us and to teach and comfort us. Why would Jesus send a spirit that has nothing to say.”
      You are making the mistake of believing that false teachers are saved. They’re not. They don’t have the Holy Spirit in them. (Romans 16:18)

      RC said: “No where in the Bibke dies it say God is finished talking.”
      Yes it does. At least at the present time, He is no longer giving personal revelation. Rev 22:18-19, Heb 1:1-2.

      RC said: “And in Revelation it talks about churches being judged for many things including unbelief. Jesus chastised the apostles for unbelief many times. So you think YOU have it all figured out now?”
      Just because some don’t believe doesn’t mean no one understands. By your method, the entire church is in confusion because no one can figure out anything from the Bible. But the Lord did not send a spirit of confusion. 1 Corinthians 14:33

      RC said: “Only a blind man would think the American church as a whole is a believing church these days.”
      Correct. But that is not what this essay is about.

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Throwback Friday: A Tale of Two Shepherds

This essay first appeared on The End Time on November 17, 2011 ------------------------------------------ Prophecy of the Shepherds ...