Sunday, November 15, 2015

Beth Moore's strangely disappearing tweet: a discernment lesson



In interesting little incident happened on Beth Moore's twitter stream yesterday. Mrs Moore wrote:


Even some of her followers were puzzled by Moore's inadvertent unbiblical admission.


I tweeted the following:


A few other people made mention of Moore' puzzling admission too. And then the usual happened. Usual for these apostate days:

Beth Moore's tweet went POOF.


There are a few discernment things to understand here. First, on the literal side of things, Beth Moore's tweet demonstrates two simple biblical failures. Of course Keith Moore is not "inclined" to study scripture. None of us are. Our flesh always battles Godly disciplines. However the point of the Christian life is that we deny those fleshly indulgences by picking up our cross (Mt 16:24), and we rely on the Holy Spirit to help us overcome the flesh (our 'inclinations') to pursue holiness. All of 2 Peter exhorts for growth in godliness and pursuing the holiness our Lord deserves. That Mr Moore gives in to the flesh so as to avoid pursuing holiness is not sanctification.

Secondly it fails the husbandly aspects of a Godly marriage. The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has a guide for husbands regarding this aspect of marriage. I quote it because the Moores have stated many times they are Southern Baptist, belong to a Southern Baptist church and are proudly Southern Baptist. "Lead Your Wife Spiritually: A Guide for Husbands"
it’s especially true of husbands who bear the responsibility to lead in a marriage. Your marriage should be a significant source of your wife’s sanctification. Consider Paul’s words to the Ephesians again: 
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. (Ephesians 5:25-28) 
Clearly, you’re not Christ. There is a sanctifying work that only Jesus can do, but as you model your love on the sanctifying relationship of Christ in the church, you do have a role in your wife’s sanctification. Even if your wife is more spiritually engaged and mature than you are, you still have a responsibility to lead. 
Next, moving away from the literal aspects to the conceptual aspects of Moore's tweet, teachers of God's word, as Beth Moore claims to be, should be mature, wise, careful, and self-controlled.

Paul advised young Timothy to "set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity."

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. (Titus 2:7-8).

Titus 2:3 also advises elder women on behavior and comportment in Christian life. As does 1 Timothy 3:11-

In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

I would further state that advice for elder women goes in spades for when they are speaking publicly about their husbands.

On the discernment side, if you're having red flags about a certain teacher or preacher, one thing to look for is if he or she makes hasty statements. Do they have to retract things often? Do they have to go back the next week and fix a wrong thing they said? I'm not saying teachers don't ever make a mistake, but if the teacher or preacher you like or follow has a habit of always having to re-explain, correct, or retract, it's an issue. Real teachers consider their words carefully and speak wisely to minimize such problems, as the 1 Tim 3:11 and Titus 2:7-8 verses says they should do.

I've said before that Beth Moore is not qualified to teach partly because of her undignified delivery. She speaks casually, quickly (both in tempo and in heart-haste). Her haste, multitudes of words, and thoughtlessness in her teaching was replicated in posting that tweet for the world to see. It was careless, as evidenced by her almost immediate deletion of it. The Bible says of a person who is hasty in words,

Do you see a man who is hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him. (Proverbs 29:20)

Be not rash with your mouth, nor let your heart be hasty to utter a word before God, for God is in heaven and you are on earth. Therefore let your words be few. (Ecclesiastes 5:12)

Now someone could say, "Gee, that was one tweet, maybe Beth Moore meant Keith wasn't inclined to study scriptures with her right then." That could well be what she meant. So in discernment, we don't jump to conclusions but we watch fruit grow. LOL, it takes a long time to watch fruit grow. It's like watching paint dry. It takes time and patience. So, in Keith's case, is there any? What is the overall, long-term pattern and is there any evidence to support that this is a consistent husbandly failure on his part?

Yes, and yes. The Moores have had a long, public spiritual life. There is much evidence to support that Keith Moore has consistently failed his wife by abandoning the husbandly role, and in so doing, rebelled against his God and allowed a Jezebel-type to be born.

Beth Moore chose to be President of her multi-million dollar corporation, Living Proof Ministries. Her husband chose to be Vice President. In one video interview I watched of Beth, she said her husband Keith has no part in the company (ministry). She was saying that as if it was a good thing, but it is really a bad thing. In looking at Living Proof Ministries' tax returns, Moore's reported hours working at the ministry were 50 hours per week and Keith's were 8 hours per week. She was President and he was Vice-president. He took no compensation. So what she said was true.

However, in ministry, the wife is supposed to be led by the husband. He is supposed to oversee her. If her non-profit was a ministry as she claimed on her IRS forms, the man needed biblically to be very involved so he could rightly make decisions and lead his wife. If it isn't a ministry but is a corporation, then why was she taking the lead role, in that case she would be be leading a feminist lifestyle? Either way, it was a #fail.

In an interview in Charisma Magazine some years ago, Moore explained how she and her husband worked out their roles as Living Proof Ministries grew and placed increasing demands on Moore.
The only time Keith ever voiced any objection, both women say, was in the early days of the ministry when Beth, at God's prompting, quit teaching aerobics classes and began to write Bible studies. The aerobics classes had brought in at least "a little part-time money," Beth says. But at that time, the Bible studies were not for-pay publications; they were simply a tool she prepared gratis for the women who were attending her Thursday morning Bible class at Metropolitan Baptist Church in Houston. Keith didn't understand Beth's willingness to invest so much time in a project she wasn't being paid for.
So her husband objected to Beth STOPPING her work outside the home and OBJECTED to her being at home more. In fact, biblically, it should be the opposite. Keith objected to her ministry work FOR THE LORD as long as she wasn't being financially compensated. Again, this is not what we do for the Lord.

When Moore's children were small the growing ministry required her to travel away from home. This was not a problem for Mr Moore. In the interview, Beth said that he simply stepped in to the wifely role as the wife stepped into the husband's. From the same article linked above, it is reported in the interview and using their own words, that the children endured long and/or frequent absences of their mother away from home, that they strove to maintain normalcy when Beth was gone, that they lost family privacy, that the family endured trials because of Beth's choice to work outside the home, that they all had to sacrifice for the sake of Beth's ministry, that each time Beth left home the children saw their father (unbiblically) performing in the wife's role, and that Keith totally supported Beth's choices all the while. Moore says of her absences from home as a mother, her children
"invested in the kingdom every time they kissed their mother goodbye."
This is what happens when the husband follows his fleshly "inclinations", and fails to rightly lead. It is not surprising then, we end up with a false teacher like Beth Moore who does not know how to handle scripture. In the end, the answer is yes, there is along-term pattern of unfruitfulness so as to be able to credibly say enough evidence exists to support that this is a consistent husbandly failure on his part? We can answer the question Pastor Mike Abendroth asked, Where is Beth Moore's Husband?

So the take-away discernment lessons here are:

1. Use social media wisely. It's embarrassing for someone to speak impiously and worse to see the twitter stream littered with "unavailable tweets." Proverbs 12:4 here, An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones. Sin and error never lead to courage. They usually lead to hiding the sin and deleting the tweet. When you tweet, post, blog, vlog, or otherwise, do you stand behind what you've said? Even under fire, does what you've said, stand on solid ground?

2. Do not be hasty when speaking, especially publicly. If you are a teacher, be even slower with your words. Proverbs 12:18 says, There is one whose rash words are like sword thrusts, but the tongue of the wise brings healing.

3. Women, help your men do their duty of protecting and overseeing you. First, because it is a biblical command, and second, because the false teachers are just waiting to "creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions," (Ephesians 5:22-24, 2 Timothy 3:6).

4. Women, you know that we have a tendency to be led astray and usurp the husband (Genesis 3:16). Stay submitted.

5. Sin always finds you out. (Numbers 32:23). Where a false teacher is concerned, both their doctrine and their lives (behavior) will be suspect. Yes, even Billy Graham's. We detect the false doctrine earlier and more easily because false teachers can't hide their teaching, that is their moneymaking, stock-in-trade. They can and do hide the sin in their lives more easily, but as the verse says, it will find you out. The natural man can't keep a lid on his sinful behavior forever. It WILL come out.

In Beth Moore's case she tries very hard to hide her private life. The Charisma interview I linked to is 13 years old. Not many interviews occurred after that. Or if they did, Moore insists on prepared questions ahead of time, denies tours of her office, and refuses to speak of certain periods or issues in her life (untransparent to the extreme). There are always some glimpses and gleanings of the all-important moral side emerging, though. She can't keep a lid on all of it.

Usually at some point a critical mass is reached, the cracks in the dam can't be plugged and the whole thing comes down.  Every false teacher always has some moral issue that emerges. We saw this with Mark Driscoll. Tullian Tchividjian. Creflo Dollar. Jimmy Swaggart. Joyce Meyer. Jack Schaap. The list is seemingly endless. That's because a false teacher or false pastor has no hope of restraining the sin in him, and even a secret sin always finds its way out.

6. Honor your husband. It is a great example to set for the younger women. A solid, biblical marriage is wondrous to behold and that is because marriage is a picture of Jesus and His Bride.

Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty thunder peals, crying, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure"-- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are true words of God." (Revelation 19:6-9)

18 comments :

  1. I'd planned to blog on this incident tomorrow. If I do, I'll link back to this post.

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    1. Thank you DebbieLynne. I'll link to yours. If you do have a chance to blog about it, I' love to read your perspective. You always have good insights.

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  2. Having watched Beth with a wary eye the last 4 years, this is utterly unsurprising. It seems to me that we are starting to see her unravel a bit this last year, which is a good thing. Perhaps more people will begin to question if following her is beneficial.

    Jennifer

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  3. I thought Moore's comments about her husband in her recent interview with Pricilla Shrier were interesting. Some comments at the beginning of the talk and some further into it.

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  4. Elizabeth, this was extremely helpful in lots of ways. Thank you!

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    1. You're very welcome, Maria. All for His glory. Thank you for reading.

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  5. I agree that Beth Moore is a false teacher no doubt. But reading all of your writings on her, I cannot help but notice that many times you go past just her teachings into all out attack mode. I say this not to be rude to you. And again I AGREE that Moore is false. But, when it comes to her specifically, in your writings, your attitude towards her goes beyond just critiquing/exposing her teachings, it comes off very personal. There are plenty of writings exposing false teachers where it isn't aimed at attacking the person. It can (and has) be done constructively. I think you are an excellent writer and have a lot of good things to say. But even a couple of friends of mine (who I asked to read your series on Moore) caught the attack mode vibe in your writings on Moore as well.

    Katie

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    1. Thank you for reading all my writings on Beth Moore. I appreciate it. Also, thank you for your admonition. I will be glad to look over where you've said I attacked her. If you would kindly paste some examples of where you believe my admonitions and warnings in your opinion went over to attack, along with some verses that support your position, I'll be happy to take a look.

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  6. “You brood of vipers, who told you to repent “ (John the Baptist said this)

    How’s that for harsh unloving words to those whom lead many to the fires of eternal hell?
    I too wonder what folks would say today, when Jesus himself went into the temple and threw over the money changers tables?

    I have read MUCH by my sister Elizabeth Prata, and personally believe that she is doing a job well done, and far more than what most others are doing for the sake of TRUTH, and for the glorious purposes of the God of the Bible and the Lord Jesus Christ!



    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. 10 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
    11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”
    Matthew 3:7-10 (ESV)


    Rick : ~ )
    Metro Atlanta

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    1. Rick actually the context was about Jews needing baptism and not just Gentiles.

      And again, unless you chose to overlook my praise of Elizabeth's writings, I DO agree that Moore is false. I and DO think she needs to be exposed. I never denied that. So if you would do me the courtesy and not twist my words I will show the same respect to you. I was not attacking Elizabeth. And there are plenty other people standing up for truth she is not the only one.

      Once I get past the holiday I will thoroughly go through her series on Moore and copy and paste where saw the attacks (not having to do with doctrine). Thank you and have a good holiday.

      Katie

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  7. Katie,

    I am sorry that you have erroneously perceived me as having twisted your words. I had never addressed you, nor have I called out your name, nor do I believe that I put a twist to any of your words.

    Concerning the passage that I quoted, I am aware of the context - apparently you missed the whole point!
    Frankly, you seem to be quite defensive. If you feel that Elizabeth has made unwarranted attacks on a personal level against Beth Moore, then I would implore you to change your approach! You should be sending her a DIRECT PERSONAL email, AND with a loving, contrite spirit, thus hoping that she would make a public retraction IF she sensed to do so - and NOT attempt to undermine her diligent labors on her blog site (I’m surprised that she even posted it)!

    I am fast approaching being an old man - I have seen a lot of these types of reactions in and out of the Church when one calls out deception. Most of the attacks seem to be coming from professing fellow Christians - sometimes I really wonder how many of these are true saints (THIS IS A GENERAL STATEMENT Katie - I do not know you personally)

    Lastly, I do not PERSONALLY believe that she made any personal attacks against Beth Moore (Only she can really answer this). My counsel and encouragement to her, and to others REMAIN.

    I hope that you will continue to read her blog, and make edifying comments, and to know when something should be kept private verses public. May the Lord Bless you Katie : - )

    Rick : > )
    Metro Atlanta

    PS, I reiterate my original comment on this topic and essay, and this is all that I care to say publicly on this matter. Thank you.

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    1. Rick I do not feel my approach was very rude at all. Nor am I against warning about false teachers. Lemme ask you this, since false teachers teach publicly then their rebukes and warnings against them should be public as well (thus this blog for example). So if that is the case then why can't I address Elizabeth publicly on her public blog? Thats a fair question....

      My defense was/is due to assuming I am against warning on false teachers. That is not true. But what I am against is using one's private life to justify them being false. Example, Elizabeth going on about Beth Moore's husband and daughter in that series she wrote. That has absolutely nothing to do with doctrine. I have been sick so I haven't had the time to go back and re-read the series but that particular part where Elizabeth starts making judgements on Moore's marriage and motherhood was not only uncalled for but no one knows her home life to make such an assessment.

      Katie

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    2. Hi Katie,
      I’m glad you spoke up, because now I have a better handle on your assertion that I “attacked” Beth Moore. It seems to me that you have a concern that I spoke about her homelife, and you feel that has nothing to do with the overall responsibility for hearers and students to judge her on. In discussing Moore’s “private life” you feel I was attacking her. Katie, please bear with me as I share the biblical reality.

      First of all, a bible teacher or leader does not have a private life. Their lives should be as transparent as possible, open for all to see. Indeed, homelife is one of the criteria for even considering a teacher of the church. If we "do not know enough about Moore's home life" to make such an assessment as you mentioned, then this fails a biblical standard for teachers.

      Of all the biblical qualifications stated in the bible for teachers to possess only one relates to skill. (1 Tim 3:2, “able to teach”).The rest are moral. A teacher or leader’s life MUST be examined as part of the anointing by a church to install them as teacher or leader, and MUST be used as the benchmark to assess an installed teacher’s credibility. A teacher’s sexual purity, home leadership (or if a woman, submission to home leadership) and interpersonal behaviors in private and public are part of the package when judging a teacher as true or false.

      He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God? (1 Timothy 3:4-5).

      Now, Moore is not a teacher in a church, but is a teacher in the public, outside of any hierarchical church authority to which she has been trained, was confirmed in her anointing, and to which she is accountable. She is kind of rogue. This makes her home submission and home life all the more important because her husband then becomes the one to whom we should look to assess her moral and doctrinal qualifications. Yet, he doesn’t lead her. As we see from the point I was making in this essay, with her statement her husband doesn’t favor studying the bible, it’s obvious she isn’t being rightly led. And it becomes more obvious as we scrutinize her life.

      No teacher taking on this highly sacred and somber responsibility of teaching the Lord’s word can or should escape scrutiny of her home life. A teacher cannot teach one thing M-F and then live like hell Sat and Sun. Most of the biblical criteria for judging a leader of a church or a teacher of the word are behavioral/moral. This is so they can undergird their teaching with their life’s example. I invite you to read the following essay which describes the qualifications of teachers. It is only one of many, Titus 1:1-5

      if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. 7For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, 8but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. 9He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

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  8. Elizabeth, I hope it's alright for me to add my own thoughts.
    Beth is a false teacher - she is dangerous, deceived and deceiving. You are right to warn against her and to be as clear as possible when you do. Keep doing this when necessary and let's ask the Lord to give us the grace to intercede for her.

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  9. Katie,

    I carefully read your additional comment . I have a sense that you are sincere. Please know that I am going to take the liberty in saying that many on this site, including myself and Elizabeth, respect and care for you. I think that the tone of Elizabeth’s additional response to you was a demonstration of genuine agape love. I hope that you see this, and hopefully I too will mirror the same.

    In answer to what you termed as a “fair question” for me, the following may be of help to you.
    First, the difference in “false teachers” whom preach/teach/write, etc., publicly is by default of them being the frauds outside of Christ that they are! They have no concept of Biblical TRUTH, they are totally devoid of the truth, are deceived and deceiving others and on a fast track to that incomprehensible place that the Bible has warned us about - H E L L! They are entitled to NO private rebuke because they are total frauds!

    Elizabeth has clearly demonstrated an understanding of Biblical truth and has consistently validated the hallmarks of being authentically connected to the vine-the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. IF she was wrong about something similar to your stated previous concerns-perhaps even to a point of sin. Would you not have love and respect for her as to hide her nakedness from a watching world, especially due to the fact that she is very obviously a true saint? Would you want to hinder the creditability of her ministry because you may not agree with her on something that is not foundational, even if it was a sin on the non blatant level that you have initially thought was the case?

    Many of the big name folks in ministry (not all) can not readily and personally be contacted-this is NOT the case here, You can always email Elizabeth personally.

    If you were in a Bible believing assembly of believers with a godly pastor, and he said something that you for whatever reason (maybe a lack of understanding too) thought may be a sin - or very poor judgment, would you then use your tongue to lash him publicly throughout the Church? Sounds like a very unwise move does it not Katie? Who would grieve our Lord here, who would stir up conflict and undermine a New Testament Church before a dying lost world?

    In closing, I again concur with Elizabeth’s response, as well as her doctrinally sound latest stance.
    My favorite Biblically sound Preacher/teacher John MacArthur has said in several of his messages that the false preacher/teacher loves money and are morally corrupt and are sexually impure (going on memory here- but something to this effect). Maybe you may want to check out some of his messages IF you have not already. I listen to hear very near daily, and sometimes for hours in any given day. The messages are free downloads, or just listen at www.gty.org

    Another good site that Elizabeth turn all of us on to was www.expositor.fm (I have been listening to this near daily too. Lots of very good teaching Katie).

    I hope that you now have a better understanding after Elizabeth and I both have endeavored to love you with truth. I hope to read some of your other comments on other topics in the future if the Lord tarries a tad longer. I too am sorry to hear of your health challenges. I will pray for you on this.

    Love in Christ,
    Brother Rick : > )
    Metro Atlanta

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  10. Hi. Recently both my wife and I left a church we had been at for 3 years. Unfortunately, the men's group started a dvd bible study hosted by Mrs. Moore. Within 3 minutes of listening, I felt something wasn't "kosher". But I had to endure another 45 minutes, followed by 30 minutes of discussion. I had to sit on my hands because of so many errors. My wife warned me, so if you are a man, reading this blog, take it from a Messianic rabbi, Mrs. Moore is NOT kosher for men or women.

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  11. She is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a false prophet.

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