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By Elizabeth Prata
I am working on a series of essays looking at the teachings of Beth Moore. She is currently a wildly popular Christian Bible teacher. Her books, DVDs, lessons, devotionals and tours sell like hotcakes. She regularly fills stadiums and arenas to capacity. She is sought after for speaking engagements and has a regular spot on a television show called Life Today. She teaches Sunday School in her home town of Houston when she is in town and has had that position since 1984.
We are in the times of the doctrines of devils, of false teachers and of deception. Beth Moore may be true or she may be false (we'll explore that this essay) but because the Bible warns of these problems with teachers and teachings at the latter days, it is important for us to take a careful look at any and all teachers who have this much influence. I mentioned in Part One that I am headed to a Beth Moore conference this weekend. I'll be listening to her for 6 hours and may have more to say afterward. In preparation for these essays I've listened to Beth Moore for several hours, prayed, read others' concerns, and studied. Here's the series so far:
Troubled by Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 1: Introduction and Casualness
Troubled by Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 2: Un-dignified teaching
Troubled by Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 3: Contemplative Prayer
Troubled By Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 4: Legalism
Troubled By Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 5: Personal Revelation
-------------------------------------
This essay looks at how Mrs Moore combines improper handling of the Word (eisegesis) with her female-slanted pop psychology that forms the foundation of her current teachings.
First, the pop psychology- You have rights, you know! You have a right to make claims of God! At least, after listening to at least ten clips from Beth Moore's teaching on Life Today, that seems to be one of the themes popping up more frequently than is wise. I'll give just one example:
LIFE Today: Beth Moore "Your Right to a Sound Mind"
"Every single one of us has the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual. To have a healthy heart and a healthy mind, it is your right in Christ. Here's what happens. For a long time we won't admit we don't have any stuff at all. But once we do come to grips with the fact that we really do have some pretty severe stuff, the enemy starts playing on us with- he begins to convince us that if we ever did open that can of worms, we wouldn't even be able to deal with it. So if he ever could convince us, if I ever really looked into my past and dealt with the things that happened to me in childhood, I would go crazy. I would go crazy. Listen, it's a big one cause it's a serious threat. Because really, honestly, that could happen. And you know what? I'm really not so sure it couldn't. Unless you claimed your right. Claimed your right in Christ. [emphasis hers]."
She continues with talks about facing your past, and how that makes the enemy cower.
I translated it word for word, you know. It makes no sense. She is simply babbling. I have no clue as to what the 'stuff' is or what the 'can of worms' is, or what the 'serious threat' is. It opened and closed with the show's premise: you have some rights in Christ. And you must claim them. Now! I have a few things to say about that.
I mentioned in part one that Mrs Moore teaches a women's ministry but that not all women have the same cultural background or even the same experience. Not all of us were abused as a kid. Not all of us adopted a child and then gave him back (or lost custody, depending on the story). Some of us don't even have 'stuff' to face and there is not a can of worms in sight. I don't understand what she is saying and I don't connect with it. But why should all of that matter? Because Beth Moore uses the Bible as a cure-all for women's emotional hurts and applies the worst pop psychology to do it. She does not preach from the Word, which delivers consistent understanding, but rather she preaches from her experience and applies the Word, which is hit or miss in the understanding department.
What we have with Beth Moore is a case of eisegesis, and not exegesis. GotQuestions has a great explanation of the difference, and provides a devastating example at the end of the page, and it corresponds exactly to what Beth Moore does in her teaching.
Here is the first paragraph of GotQuestions' explanation of the difference between eisegesis and exegesis:
"Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text. The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants. Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words."
What Mrs Moore does is begin with a pop psychology point: in this case, your right to be whole and healthy. Others are 'Pressing past our fears" or "Don't be Demotivated", "The Closer They Are, The Worse They Hurt". She comes to the Bible with an emotional, psychological need in mind, and then finds the verses matching up that will show women how Christianity will take care of it for you. The verses she chooses are used out of context and often just wrong.
When Mrs Moore claimed, "Every single one of us has the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual," she did not provide a biblical verse that supported her claim. There wasn't a Bible verse that supported the premise, and this is also a problem because the Bible is present but little used at a Beth Moore study. With her statement about having certain rights, and about claiming them, there are two issues.
First, we all come to the cross broken. It is what sin does to us. It is what others' sins do to us. The Lord allows the effects of sin to pollute the world and even unsaved children, or mature Christians are affected by the pollution. We're ALL broken. We ALL have 'stuff.' It is the reason we need Jesus. But the Bible is not a cure-all. It is not to be trotted out and read with an eye for how this verse or that verse is going to magically cure my emotional hurts. I have sympathy and sensitivity for people who have gone through stuff. I have gone through stuff. But the key phrase is "gone through." I am not stuck in it and if I was I would not use the Bible as the self-help book. I have the following attitude toward wallowing in personal hurts:
Now, to the eisegesis of another teaching of hers I'd mentioned from Hebrews called, "Don't throw away your confidence". I'll show how pop psychology will often lead to an understanding of the text that is exactly opposite to its true meaning. She uses Hebrews 10, especially verse 19-20 as the source text, "Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. By a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body," and verse 36, "You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised."
Moore speaks then of how "we have let the enemy drain us of the confidence and competence we were given in Christ. These are the kinds of things that even when we are in our workplace and something has happened and something has tripped us up or we're getting intimidated about a presentation we're about to make, something that we're about to do out front and it is really not our thing, these are verses you need to be saying to yourself."
She worries for us that "perhaps you've been given somebody the power that only God should have over you and that is under cutting your confidence." So the teaching is about you, your confidence, and someone else that is moving in on your goods. It is not about Jesus. Eisegesis vs exegesis. But people love her teaching because it's always about us. To be truthful it's always about her, but she relates so well to the audience that she makes it seem like it's about us together, anyone with me on that? But it's not about Jesus.
I was offended by that teaching, first because Moore seems always to think that women are walking emotional wounds, in need of biblical band aids in order to function. Then I was also offended in the extreme because the source text was NOT about having self-confidence. It was about having confidence in Jesus. The verse actually began with the writer's use of "Therefore..." This is an exegetical clue. The point has already been made, and this sentence is the conclusion. For good exegesis we always look to the context, read what is prior to the verse and what is after the verse. Never pick just one verse and then make a popular doctrine of it. Because Moore did this, she got the teaching exactly backward.
The writer had been talking about the sacrifice Jesus made, and how His flesh was the veil that had been torn. The writer explained that without blood there is no remission of sin. Because Jesus did this, and because His sacrifice is perfect, we can have all confidence that our sins are forgiven, forever.
And she taught that the verse was having self-confidence when you walk into a meeting.
Having turned the Bible into stuff about us, she often tells the audience that we have rights. So to close with the opening, from "Your right to a sound mind", she had said, "Every single one of us has the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual". It was a claim not backed up by scripture. I'm not surprised, because it can't be backed up by scripture. Scripture actually says the opposite.
Romans 12:1 says "Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship." If we sacrifice ourselves to God do we have claims later? Takes-backsies? No. The quid pro quo of faith and worship is that His mercy saved us, and in submitting to that mercy we recognize that He has full rights to us because He knows us and He has a plan for us. (Jer 29:11). Sometimes He tells us what the plan is and sometimes He doesn't. Did He tell Jeremiah ahead of time that he'd minister and exhort 40 years without a single convert? And live friendless? And be thrown into a pit? Did Jeremiah shout from the pit 'I have the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual! And to walk into my meeting with confidence!' No.
In Beth Moore-land, Nebuchadnezzar was cheated out of his 'right' to a sound mind? In Daniel 3:26-30 the king was floored by God's work with the three in the fiery furnace and proclaimed God as the One to worship. In Chapter 4, Nebuchadnezzar's pride returned and God made him go insane for 7 years. Beth Moore should look into this outrage. Or maybe the ACLU, his rights were denied.
Are we entitled to a sound body? No. Ask Paul. Paul was buffeted constantly, beaten up, stoned, flogged, left for dead. (2 Cor. 11:23-26). Each time the Lord healed Paul. But Paul did ask if the Lord would lighten satan up a bit on the harsh resistance, but the Lord said, no, My grace is sufficient for you." (2 Corinthians 12:7-9) And being the slave to Christ that Paul was, he went off to another city to receive some more earthly beatings.
God has a plan and the sacrifice WE make is that we fling ourselves fully at the base of the cross and say "Abba! Father! Use me!" Did you know that we are slaves? Yes, slaves. Paul uses the word but it is often translated bond-servant, or diluted even further to servant. We're slaves to Christ. Slaves have no rights. Our faith is based on the fact that God is perfect and will use us perfectly for His glory. We certainly don't have rights and we definitely don't make claims of God! Here is a great teaching on our slave-Master relationship from John Macarthur.
We've gone on a long journey now, from part 1 to part 6, from simple concerns about dignified teaching to proofs of how Mrs Moore twists scripture to the detriment of the honor and glory of God. Verve and energy she has, but underlying that stage frenzy is a lot of false teaching. And just at the time when we need solid teaching most...
I am working on a series of essays looking at the teachings of Beth Moore. She is currently a wildly popular Christian Bible teacher. Her books, DVDs, lessons, devotionals and tours sell like hotcakes. She regularly fills stadiums and arenas to capacity. She is sought after for speaking engagements and has a regular spot on a television show called Life Today. She teaches Sunday School in her home town of Houston when she is in town and has had that position since 1984.
We are in the times of the doctrines of devils, of false teachers and of deception. Beth Moore may be true or she may be false (we'll explore that this essay) but because the Bible warns of these problems with teachers and teachings at the latter days, it is important for us to take a careful look at any and all teachers who have this much influence. I mentioned in Part One that I am headed to a Beth Moore conference this weekend. I'll be listening to her for 6 hours and may have more to say afterward. In preparation for these essays I've listened to Beth Moore for several hours, prayed, read others' concerns, and studied. Here's the series so far:
Troubled by Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 1: Introduction and Casualness
Troubled by Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 2: Un-dignified teaching
Troubled by Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 3: Contemplative Prayer
Troubled By Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 4: Legalism
Troubled By Beth Moore's Teaching, Part 5: Personal Revelation
-------------------------------------
Eisegesis, Pop Psychology, and Bad Bible Interpretations
This essay looks at how Mrs Moore combines improper handling of the Word (eisegesis) with her female-slanted pop psychology that forms the foundation of her current teachings.
First, the pop psychology- You have rights, you know! You have a right to make claims of God! At least, after listening to at least ten clips from Beth Moore's teaching on Life Today, that seems to be one of the themes popping up more frequently than is wise. I'll give just one example:
LIFE Today: Beth Moore "Your Right to a Sound Mind"
"Every single one of us has the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual. To have a healthy heart and a healthy mind, it is your right in Christ. Here's what happens. For a long time we won't admit we don't have any stuff at all. But once we do come to grips with the fact that we really do have some pretty severe stuff, the enemy starts playing on us with- he begins to convince us that if we ever did open that can of worms, we wouldn't even be able to deal with it. So if he ever could convince us, if I ever really looked into my past and dealt with the things that happened to me in childhood, I would go crazy. I would go crazy. Listen, it's a big one cause it's a serious threat. Because really, honestly, that could happen. And you know what? I'm really not so sure it couldn't. Unless you claimed your right. Claimed your right in Christ. [emphasis hers]."
She continues with talks about facing your past, and how that makes the enemy cower.
I translated it word for word, you know. It makes no sense. She is simply babbling. I have no clue as to what the 'stuff' is or what the 'can of worms' is, or what the 'serious threat' is. It opened and closed with the show's premise: you have some rights in Christ. And you must claim them. Now! I have a few things to say about that.
I mentioned in part one that Mrs Moore teaches a women's ministry but that not all women have the same cultural background or even the same experience. Not all of us were abused as a kid. Not all of us adopted a child and then gave him back (or lost custody, depending on the story). Some of us don't even have 'stuff' to face and there is not a can of worms in sight. I don't understand what she is saying and I don't connect with it. But why should all of that matter? Because Beth Moore uses the Bible as a cure-all for women's emotional hurts and applies the worst pop psychology to do it. She does not preach from the Word, which delivers consistent understanding, but rather she preaches from her experience and applies the Word, which is hit or miss in the understanding department.
What we have with Beth Moore is a case of eisegesis, and not exegesis. GotQuestions has a great explanation of the difference, and provides a devastating example at the end of the page, and it corresponds exactly to what Beth Moore does in her teaching.
Here is the first paragraph of GotQuestions' explanation of the difference between eisegesis and exegesis:
"Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text. The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants. Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words."
What Mrs Moore does is begin with a pop psychology point: in this case, your right to be whole and healthy. Others are 'Pressing past our fears" or "Don't be Demotivated", "The Closer They Are, The Worse They Hurt". She comes to the Bible with an emotional, psychological need in mind, and then finds the verses matching up that will show women how Christianity will take care of it for you. The verses she chooses are used out of context and often just wrong.
When Mrs Moore claimed, "Every single one of us has the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual," she did not provide a biblical verse that supported her claim. There wasn't a Bible verse that supported the premise, and this is also a problem because the Bible is present but little used at a Beth Moore study. With her statement about having certain rights, and about claiming them, there are two issues.
First, we all come to the cross broken. It is what sin does to us. It is what others' sins do to us. The Lord allows the effects of sin to pollute the world and even unsaved children, or mature Christians are affected by the pollution. We're ALL broken. We ALL have 'stuff.' It is the reason we need Jesus. But the Bible is not a cure-all. It is not to be trotted out and read with an eye for how this verse or that verse is going to magically cure my emotional hurts. I have sympathy and sensitivity for people who have gone through stuff. I have gone through stuff. But the key phrase is "gone through." I am not stuck in it and if I was I would not use the Bible as the self-help book. I have the following attitude toward wallowing in personal hurts:
Now, to the eisegesis of another teaching of hers I'd mentioned from Hebrews called, "Don't throw away your confidence". I'll show how pop psychology will often lead to an understanding of the text that is exactly opposite to its true meaning. She uses Hebrews 10, especially verse 19-20 as the source text, "Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. By a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body," and verse 36, "You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised."
Moore speaks then of how "we have let the enemy drain us of the confidence and competence we were given in Christ. These are the kinds of things that even when we are in our workplace and something has happened and something has tripped us up or we're getting intimidated about a presentation we're about to make, something that we're about to do out front and it is really not our thing, these are verses you need to be saying to yourself."
She worries for us that "perhaps you've been given somebody the power that only God should have over you and that is under cutting your confidence." So the teaching is about you, your confidence, and someone else that is moving in on your goods. It is not about Jesus. Eisegesis vs exegesis. But people love her teaching because it's always about us. To be truthful it's always about her, but she relates so well to the audience that she makes it seem like it's about us together, anyone with me on that? But it's not about Jesus.
I was offended by that teaching, first because Moore seems always to think that women are walking emotional wounds, in need of biblical band aids in order to function. Then I was also offended in the extreme because the source text was NOT about having self-confidence. It was about having confidence in Jesus. The verse actually began with the writer's use of "Therefore..." This is an exegetical clue. The point has already been made, and this sentence is the conclusion. For good exegesis we always look to the context, read what is prior to the verse and what is after the verse. Never pick just one verse and then make a popular doctrine of it. Because Moore did this, she got the teaching exactly backward.
The writer had been talking about the sacrifice Jesus made, and how His flesh was the veil that had been torn. The writer explained that without blood there is no remission of sin. Because Jesus did this, and because His sacrifice is perfect, we can have all confidence that our sins are forgiven, forever.
And she taught that the verse was having self-confidence when you walk into a meeting.
Having turned the Bible into stuff about us, she often tells the audience that we have rights. So to close with the opening, from "Your right to a sound mind", she had said, "Every single one of us has the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual". It was a claim not backed up by scripture. I'm not surprised, because it can't be backed up by scripture. Scripture actually says the opposite.
Romans 12:1 says "Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship." If we sacrifice ourselves to God do we have claims later? Takes-backsies? No. The quid pro quo of faith and worship is that His mercy saved us, and in submitting to that mercy we recognize that He has full rights to us because He knows us and He has a plan for us. (Jer 29:11). Sometimes He tells us what the plan is and sometimes He doesn't. Did He tell Jeremiah ahead of time that he'd minister and exhort 40 years without a single convert? And live friendless? And be thrown into a pit? Did Jeremiah shout from the pit 'I have the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual! And to walk into my meeting with confidence!' No.
In Beth Moore-land, Nebuchadnezzar was cheated out of his 'right' to a sound mind? In Daniel 3:26-30 the king was floored by God's work with the three in the fiery furnace and proclaimed God as the One to worship. In Chapter 4, Nebuchadnezzar's pride returned and God made him go insane for 7 years. Beth Moore should look into this outrage. Or maybe the ACLU, his rights were denied.
Are we entitled to a sound body? No. Ask Paul. Paul was buffeted constantly, beaten up, stoned, flogged, left for dead. (2 Cor. 11:23-26). Each time the Lord healed Paul. But Paul did ask if the Lord would lighten satan up a bit on the harsh resistance, but the Lord said, no, My grace is sufficient for you." (2 Corinthians 12:7-9) And being the slave to Christ that Paul was, he went off to another city to receive some more earthly beatings.
God has a plan and the sacrifice WE make is that we fling ourselves fully at the base of the cross and say "Abba! Father! Use me!" Did you know that we are slaves? Yes, slaves. Paul uses the word but it is often translated bond-servant, or diluted even further to servant. We're slaves to Christ. Slaves have no rights. Our faith is based on the fact that God is perfect and will use us perfectly for His glory. We certainly don't have rights and we definitely don't make claims of God! Here is a great teaching on our slave-Master relationship from John Macarthur.
We've gone on a long journey now, from part 1 to part 6, from simple concerns about dignified teaching to proofs of how Mrs Moore twists scripture to the detriment of the honor and glory of God. Verve and energy she has, but underlying that stage frenzy is a lot of false teaching. And just at the time when we need solid teaching most...
This helped me immensely. Again, even aside from Beth Moore. I am one that had been "broken" and put back together by Jesus. I stillbear the scars, and I'm okay with that. I display them as a way to show the lost who've been through similar things that Jesus can restore anyone, that they shouldnt shame about their lives keep them from falling at His feet and asking for His forgiveness. It's a little offensive to me that she would use the Bible as a.cure-all, as a pop-psych tool.
ReplyDeletewell said Emily. I agree, and I also do the same. When asked for my testimony, I share it in concise form, and then eagerly point to how Jesus's power overcame all that and how He helps me each day. I am offended by Moore's constant talk, either overt or subtle, that women need fixing. Worse, that the bible is the way to do it. The 'hurts' are always center stage, but not Jesus so much.
ReplyDeleteAlso, just to clarify something on my part, for those that happen to read this: as someone who does suffer from PTSD, I do recognize there is a difference between wallowing in past hurts and being assaulted by them in nightmares and flashbacks and intense memories. That is a medical condition, and even then, we must run and fall into the arms of our Savior. Don't feel guilt for having suffered; recognize the problem and get help as needed. No, the Bible is not a self-help book. It's focus is Jesus, not us. But Jesus CAN help us through those "bad days."
ReplyDeletethanks Emily :)
ReplyDeletePastor Paul on a blog I follow said it this morning so well: "It has been noted that I am not a supporter of the self-improvement preaching of the day. Instead, I am a proponent of the supernatural transformation that happens under the blood of Jesus. In non-Bible terms, Jesus' actions provoke a non-self change in our character and perspective."
ReplyDeletehttp://pastorpaulvbsblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/for-physical-training-is-of-some-value.html
http://www.apuritanatheart.com/2011/07/life-deaths-hallway/#axzz1SpYfxQxU You might enjoy this quote from Spurgeon today.
ReplyDelete"Life is death's hallway" :) Good one, thanks Anonymous. Spurgeon was such a good guy. He really got it, didn't he? Every generation needs a Spurgeon. Who is ours? MacArthur comes closest in my mind.
ReplyDeleteWow. I wish this blogger comment box had an option to use one of those little hand clapping widgets!
ReplyDeleteGreat job. I learned so much just now. I am the anonymous girl from the first post that mentioned this Hebrews verse. You so concisely show exactly what it is that Moore is doing wrong--eisegesis.
It also really ministered to me, as young woman who myself studies and prepares Bible studies for a small group. I take it seriously, and I pray that the Lord would always direct me to rightly divide the Word. May God help us to study to show ourselves approved, workers that do not need to be ashamed of our work. May I not have my own agenda I am trying to work Scripture into, but may I pray and find the Lord's agenda revealed in His word. I desire with all my heart to be submissive to His truth.
Slave.
I love it.
: )
by the way, I have the book by Dr. MacArthur by that title. It is so liberating to just be His slave. What a privilege.
Elizabeth, this is a great article on Ms. Moore. The fact that you point out her teaching on 'rights' just shows so clearly the time in which we are living and the accuracy of God's word as the definition of Laodecia, the final church addressed in Revelation, is "the people's rights".
ReplyDeleteDid He tell Jeremiah ahead of time that he'd minister and exhort 40 years without a single convert? And live friendless? And be thrown into a pit? Did Jeremiah shout from the pit 'I have the right, in Christ, to be a whole healthy, individual! And to walk into my meeting with confidence!' No.
ReplyDeleteI LOL'd there~! So true.
My only comment would be, have you gone to Beth Moore herself and discussed this? The Bible does tell us to go to an individual first with a disagreement, and then if they won't listen to take it before the elders, etc. Just curious to see what she would say concerning the eisegesis accusations. I do agree with you on several points, one being that the gospel should be spread freely, not a money making costly show. I delight in digging into the scriptures and seeing how God has put into place salvation's plan for mankind from the very beginning of time. Beth has opened my eyes to that in The Inheritance study. However, I am not a 'follower' of hers. I simply recognize her love for Jesus and her passion for the Word of God, and it encourages me to dig deeper into the Bible. I realize that it is about Jesus and His power, and not about gaining my own power or rights. Perhaps we will see the Lord lead her into a more humble approach in the future, but until then I know He can use her to lead others to the Lord. He can use anyone.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @7:03 PM,
ReplyDeletePublic correction is not the same as what is addressed in Matthew 18 which concerns one personally sinning against another.
How do you think someone could personally approach someone like Beth Moore? What if someone other than Moore, like a spokesperson, answered back? Would Moore be in bibilcal violation? Just curious.
Hi Mark, and Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteMark you ask good questions of Anonymous. If I could contribute to the question as related to Beth Moore...
It is unfortunate that she is closely guarded. That phrase is used by Christianity Today in reference to how difficult she was to approach. (link here: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/august/18.21.html?start=2)
In another incident, when there was an outcry against her participation in the Be Still video touting eastern mysticism and contemplative prayer, she/her company issued a retraction. Later, that retraction was retracted.
Third, such people usually have contact addresses on their websites. Questions and issues can be sent tot hem via fax, email, letter, or phone. I know that such issues have been raised to Beth Moore in public and also I assume in private (since the retraction is proof that at least one issue had been raised with her at some point, because she issued a statement.)
Part of the problem with popularity is losing contact with people directly. Though Beth Moore attends a church, and I assume she submits to her church leaders, direct accountability for her teaching is a thorny issue. The more insular they become, the more difficult it is to be transparent. Her choice to be so "closely guarded" as CT reveals, adds another layer of difficulty in reaching that transparency.
Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteEXCELLENT post. I did not read far enough before commenting prior.
thank you Dan :)
ReplyDeleteI wrote a 4-part series of my reactions on Moore based on having personally attended a 'Living Proof Conference', here
http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2011/07/beth-moore-reactions-to-living-proof.html
And I wrote one final piece based on her book about Paul, here:
http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2011/08/discernment-lesson-shack-and-beth_27.html
So I've reviewed her based on what I have heard in audio, seen on video, thru a DVD retreat, clips from TV, from being live at a conference, and from her teachings thru a book. I was hoping that she would be better in writing, having had time to reflect on what she wanted to write and having prayed, writing being a slower mode of communication than say, her conferences. Nope, they were not better. Her teachings still stink on ice.
Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work. :)
God Bless
I have questioned Beth Moore's teaching a few times, but didn't really know enoughabout her to back it up. Our church ladies are now going through some of her messages together and I decided to take part, so I would have a better idea of her. Our last one we watched was A Sound Mind.. Honestly it was funny and I did find some of it helpful.Also some of these things I do think are just her personality. I really respect our church leaders and know they take things into a lot of prayer before deciding to go through with a teaching so I'm not sure why it would get into the church if it is false.. However, I am questioning her teaching even more now and plan to finish reading what you are saying about her. Ultimately it is only God who will reveal truth to me, not church leaders or blogs, but this is definately helpful! Thanks!
ReplyDeleteHi Nancy,
DeleteI'm glad you're thinking and questioning. That is good. I agree, Beth Moore is a very funny story teller. I could listen to her in a storytelling setting all day long. The problem comes when she presents biblical truth, because she does not handle the word carefully.
You mentioned that "I'm not sure why it would get into the church if it is false'. I agree, I respect my church leaders too and I want to trust their decisions, ad I usually do, but I don't rely on them blindly. I doe act as a Berean and check out the material for myself. We are all called to do this, because we are all fallible and subject to blindness in certain areas. That is why the Holy Spirit dispensed spiritual gifts to all of us but not the same ones to each. *Together* we make on organic body, each helping the other.
The church is the FIRST target for falsity. There is much false teaching inside the church, from the beginning. Colossians was written to correct a major false teaching that had come to Colossae, Gnosticism. We are told via the scriptures that things will be even worse at the end of the age. Here are just a *few* warnings we're given about false teachers, false doctrine and false prophets inside the church!
2 Peter 2:1, But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
Matthew 7:15, Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
2 John 1:7, Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Titus 1:10, For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group.
If the false teachers troubled Paul so much, and the first century believers who were taught by Paul and Peter etc- who were eyewitnesses to Jesus! how much more are we sitting ducks now? More.
We are told, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear" 2 Timothy 4:3,
and that is exactly what is happening now, inside the church. Just because it is a church led by Godly men does not mean satan will not attack it and try to secretly introduce heresies. He will. That is a fact. We all must be on guard and speak up when something troubles us.
If you pray for the Spirit to deliver wisdom to you, He will do it without reproach. James 1:5. Please do pray, as you said, and He will reveal truth to you, in this case meaning discernment
yes, if you call out for insight
and raise your voice for understanding,
4 if you seek it like silver
and search for it as for hidden treasures,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding; proverbs 2:3-6
I was appalled by Moore's treatment (slashing) of Heb. 10:35 as well. You saw what I saw: twisting Scripture to make the focus about man, not Christ; the flesh, not the spiritual. That was one of the worst messages I've ever heard, frankly. But because of Moore's flattery and slick words and emotional identification, she can deceive many people, especially women. I noticed in that teaching on confidence, that she was trying really hard to work up the audience and get praise from them, but they weren't doing it. She kept saying "Do I hear an "amen"?" "Am I the only one who has felt that that?" She literally got in the faces of some of those women too as she strutted around the set. I felt bad for those women. I mean, talk about putting pressure on them. Yikes.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to find others who are discerning about such popular teachers, because frankly its rare these days. Too many have teachers or authors as their idol and think they can escape the poison. Our Lord commanded us to reject such teachers, not hold on to what is "good"--the poison, the leaven, turns and twists what little truth they use to deceive, into lies, if you see what I mean.
I was privileged to attend a Living Proof Conf. with Beth Moore live this past weekend in my very liberal city, Eugene, OR with approx. 7,500 other women and a few men. You must be criticizing another Beth Moore as none of the points you write about were present in her teaching. I have taken about 10 courses from her and am always drawn closer to the Person of Jesus Christ. If she was teaching false doctrine, would the Holy Spirit draw people to walk closer to Jesus, would the Holy Spirit inspire us to live more openly for Jesus, would the Holy Spirit convict and prompt us to praise Jesus more? I don't think so. I have been a follower of Jesus Christ for 70 years and have been involved in evangelistic work, written christian books, (not self-published), taught Bible studies, have been a passionate student of the Word, so I believe I can spot a phony and misuser of the Bible as well as you. Beth used Scripture profusely by the way! Sorry but think you are just displaying a nitpicking, negative attitude for some reason!
ReplyDeleteHi June,
DeleteThank you for your comment. Yes, people would draw closer to false teachers. You cannot assume it is the Spirit drawing them. The bible says that "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions," 2 Peter 2:3. This means that the false teachers will heap up students and the students will follow many false teachers.
You can't gauge a teacher by how many converts or followers they have. As a matter of fact, the bible says that popularity is a warning-
Luke 6:26... "Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way"
Yes Mrs Moore uses scripture profusely: meaning shallowly and out of context. A false teacher isn't going to come in and toss the bible aside, they will use it incorrectly, as Mrs Moore does. You can't gauge her genuineness by number of verses referenced, but by *how* she uses it and the context. That was the point of this article- eisegesis versus exegesis.
I'm glad you felt good after each of your ten courses from Mrs Moore, but you cannot gauge a successful bible teaching by how you feel. You're drawn closer to Christ (emotionally) but do you know more about Him, and through a correct doctrinal lens? Not if Mrs Moore teaches it.
Finally, I'll lovingly suggest that after ten courses and a Living Proof conference that it may be time for you to break free from Mrs Moore. I refer back to the 2 Peter verse, AND the fact that you said "I was *privileged* to attend..." She's not Christ. She is a woman making 4 million a year selling books, herself, and some workbooks and lessons, twisting scripture and having visions that Jesus lifter her above the earth to see through His eyes the global church- which included the Catholic Church, which is a Phony alert right here. So please, please reconsider your attachment to Mrs Moore.
False teaching is never nitpicky. I noticed you didn't respond by using scripture nor did you address the article's points, but simply told me you like her, felt good about her, follow her, and therefore I am negative. An emotional argument isn't as persuasive as using the bible as a basis.
I disagree with you about Beth Moore. Her teaching is not "all about us." Her main focus is becoming a person who is surrendered to God and who diligently seeks God in prayer and through His word. Sure, she often uses folksy examples, and talks about bringing our pain before God. But I agree with June that it sounds like you must be talking about another Beth Moore. Don't misjudge me (I think you seriously misjudged June). I've been grounded in firm scriptural teaching under some very solid Bible scholars. Yes, I know Beth Moore has a sort of niche ministry, but I think you're really not hearing some of what she says. I'm not about to hunt through transcripts and clips to try to prove this point to you. But I believe you've gone too far.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, it is easy to say "you're wrong" but hard to use verses in a correct and discerning way to prove your point. If you are too lazy to use the bible and too dismissive of it to even try, then I value your comment not at all. I am willing to listen to anyone who wants a balanced discussion and show me from the bible where I've "gone too far". I am not willing to listen to people who comment anonymously saying "you're wrong and a poopyhead." Your comment is all about me. Using the bible to show me how and where I've gone too far makes it all about Him, which is the entire point of any discussion of false teachers: the value of Jesus and what He has said to us.
DeleteFirst time seeing these blogs. Excellent in detail and thankfully backed up with The Word of God! Yes, I fear a steady diet of Beth Moore teachings is very unhealthy to the many women whose only chance in seems in this day and age as their only 'serious' Bible study. Much of her teachings are about looking back and within for the answer and this is who much of the teachings use the living Word to deal with what is supposed to be the 'old nature' that is dead. As new creatures in Christ we are to look to Christ and press forward. Digging around all this dead stuff appeals to the flesh and distracts us from what the Holy Spirit's ministry is supposed to do - LEAD us to CHRIST. Excellent examples ie the Hebrews 10. We are not to seek something ourselves in the Word. We are to be led by the Holy Spirit to seek Christ - John 5 which Jesus tells us that all Scripture is about Him. Not us. We are sinners in need of a Savior, not an analyst or psychologist as the world does. For example 'Breaking Free'. What an enormous waste of time delving into our past and emotions and 'self' issues, etc. I wasted SO much time on that study and then saw the light. We need Jesus and we won't find that by looking within ourselves or into our past which is what we have been instructed to leave behind, all of it and then pick up our cross and follow Jesus. What a refreshing blog! And yes, we are supposed to name names as Paul did otherwise without a detailed explanation as put forth carefully in these blogs we would not know how far we have strayed from Jesus as Peter did until too late. May God bless you all with the eyes of your understanding being opened by these blogs.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous,
DeleteTHANK you for the wonderful example of the 'old nature' and why we should not look back into ti nor dig around within it. I loved that aspect of your comment especially. Blessings to you,
Elizabeth
Be careful touching the anointed! Beth Moore is a breath of fresh air...and many many worldwide have been delivered from the enemy by the boldness of this Woman of God! I am so very sorry that any of these comments have been placed here and that you call yourself a watchman! Breaking Free by Beth Moore has delivered 10's of thousands! This tree planted by the rivers of water...Beth Moore...bears good fruit! And we know a good tree by its fruit! I'd place a guard over my mouth ...just saying...you have incorrectly judged my sister in Christ...and I'm very sorry with the crowns you will lose if you continue in this. I pray you regroup! in Jesus' Name! Amen and Amen
ReplyDeleteRight there in your first sentence,Teddi, spoke volumes to me. Who said Beth was "the anointed"? Only her fans, I guess. And if any have been delivered from the enemy, it was God that delivered, not necessarily her teachings, which again points to her being idolized, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI will likely incur flack for this (perhaps due to misunderstanding, or more likely, from semantics that seems imperative among discernment comment boards), but I have been on SEVERAL discernment blogs over the last several years, and though I do appreciate the measure of "calling out” that goes on concerning things that are clearly unscriptural, I have a big issue with much of the "discernment ministry" as it exists today online. Mainly, it is the blogger's freedom to comment EXTENSIVELY on the faults of an individual or ministry.
ReplyDeleteLooking at Jesus Himself, Paul and the NT writers, they never spent much page space dealing with false teachers or prophets as individual personalities. They either mentioned them briefly by name, stating their error, or gave warnings. Contrariwise, discernment bloggers go into great detail about the offenders of the faith, even as they are contending earnestly for it. I find that this in itself is not scriptural.
Yes, there is the spiritual gift of discernment, which is from the Holy Spirit and is a gift to the body of Christ, above the call of every individual believer to "test all things" and to be like the Bereans and search the scriptures themselves. However, there is the injunction to dwell on things that are lovely, noble, praiseworthy, etc. We should not be shouting out everyone's faults; "love covers a multitude of sins".
I've never come across a compassionate post by any discernment blogger, humbly asking their readers to pray for a change in the person or ministry being scrutinized. Further, the blogger usually uses the comment thread of their post to do their own extensive teaching from the scriptures. The blogger him- or herself is usually placing themselves in the position of Bible teacher. They are often self-presenting as humble and well-nigh infallible in their discernment. I have not seen ONE who has posted in true humility. It is usually critical.
Additionally, readers should be encouraged in approving the things that are excellent, but what feedback I notice, is a ”yeah, yeah, you’re right, blogger, I agree with you. That’s bad. It’s very bad and how awful, blah blah blah…” OR ”no, no, blogger, you’ve got it all wrong. You are mean!” to which the blogger replies something to the effect of, ”you poor, misguided (often anonymous) commenter. You are truly blinded here. I am sad that you cannot see the error of your own views. That’s too bad for you. You need more discernment.”
Honestly, HOW is this building up the body of Christ in any way? Those in agreement with these bloggers feel smug and satisfied that they also have perceived an error, and those in disagreement, though they took the time to read through the posted articles, are left feeling criticized themselves, often for their lack of perfect semantics in explaining themselves, regardless of the issue or person in question. This is no different than comment threads on secular opinion blogs.
Paul the apostle himself, in dealing with those who came against his ministry among the Gentiles, was grieved by the effect of their teaching on the churches he was establishing, but he did put the dealing of them in God’s hands, and he rejoiced insofar as Christ was being preached, even though it was for wrong reasons. That is godly maturity.
People will be led astray. NOT everyone will believe the truth, or heed it, or desire to remain in it. People will fall away, walk away, etc. But going about looking for faults or casting a critical eye (though it is never perceived as critical by the discernment minister) at every pastor, teacher, ministry, etc. is not healthy. Love is not like that. Neither is God. He obviously knows everyone’s heart and wants all to be in the truth. We are to contend earnestly for the faith, but we need to focus the call on the Word of God, the truth of God, the love of God and not on the faults of others.
Thanks for your comment. I agree with you on some points and would like to share a different perspective on others.
DeleteI agree that some discernment ministries focus exclusively on faults of false teachers. It is a problem in the discernment realms. Just as those who focus on eschatology, soteriology, theology and other fields of biblical study, sometimes become too myopic and proceed with blinders on. I battle that myself, and it’s why I also write on prophecy and encouragement topics. Balance is the key. I also have a big issue with much of the discernment ministries as they exist online.
Sometimes it’s worth it to go into detail. We compare what a teacher teaches to the Bible, and if there are faults or errors, we point them out. If scripture is being violated, we show how.
As for the NT not spending much page space dealing with discernment issues, comparatively, on any given page, there is not a lot of space devoted to warnings or false teachings. However, given as a whole EVERY NT book (except Philemon) deals with false teachings, false teachers, or discernment warnings. So by that measure, yes, the NT is almost entirely devoted to refuting falsity and warning the Christian to watch out for it. I’d say that 96% of the NT given over to discernment warnings is a lot of ink on one subject.
In Acts 18:28, we read of Paul, “For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate,” and I'm sure he named names and gave examples. We also know that Jesus cleaned out the temple twice in three years, a high percentage of time devoted to a discernment message.
You said, “the blogger usually uses the comment thread of their post to do their own extensive teaching from the scriptures,” well of course! The entire point is to educate people on the pitfalls or errors of a certain teacher and in order to do that safely and reliably, scriptures are used. It's a conversation.
It’s too bad that you’ve never read a humble discernment writer, because they exist. I suggest you try Justin Peters. He also has Youtube videos. I find him to be sensitive and sweet, humble AND correct.
You asked, “Honestly, HOW is this building up the body of Christ in any way?”
If you’re referring to prideful discernment bloggers who are solely devoted to only hunting for error, they are no different that the prideful pastor or the prideful teaches or any ministry that has a sinner at the head of it. Hopefully you pray for them when you come cross them, humbly and compassionately asking the Spirit to help them to repent.
If your question is aimed at discernment ministries in general, I get asked this a lot, and it belies a misunderstanding of how important good discernment is to the Body. Suffice to say without going into more exhaustive detail, it’s important. Souls hang on it.
As for this paragraph you wrote, I completely disagree, firmly so. I would say in a concerned tone, it reveals a lack of biblical knowledge. You said,
Paul the apostle himself, in dealing with those who came against his ministry among the Gentiles, was grieved by the effect of their teaching on the churches he was establishing, but he did put the dealing of them in God’s hands, and he rejoiced insofar as Christ was being preached, even though it was for wrong reasons. That is godly maturity.”
2 Corinthians 10-13 is entirely devoted to Paul defending his ministry from false teachers. So is Galatians. Godly maturity is being an apologist when necessary. A mistake a lot of people make is that they are more concerned for the false teacher than they are for Christ.
You said, “going about looking for faults or casting a critical eye ... at every pastor, teacher, ministry, etc. is not healthy”
I agree. However NEVER looking out for error is sin, because we are commanded to do so. If we do not, we don’t love our fellow man nor do we love Jesus. Love is pointing out error, “snatching them from the fire." Jude. Love IS discernment, as Paul said in Philippians 1:9-11, they are melded. As that verse says, discernment leads to righteousness.