Wednesday, August 13, 2014

Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer: Bad company (UPDATED)

Updates here and at bottom.

At what point does one declare a teacher like Beth Moore false? Here's some help. 

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Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm. (Proverbs 13:20)

Joyce Meyer tweeted this tweet and photo today:

In the photo are Beth Moore, left, and on the right is Joyce Meyer.

For her part, Beth Moore tweeted this:

Joyce Meyer is a heretic. There is no doubt about this. She preached that we are little gods, that Jesus stopped being the Son of God, that Jesus paid for our sins in hell, that she herself is not a sinner, and more. Though Meyer is a gifted speaker, and uses the scriptures correctly sometimes, she teaches too many doctrines that are contrary to the truth to be called a woman of faith.

Beth Moore is a heretic. Readers of this blog and those who have read other blogs concerning problems with Beth Moore will know that many have been writing that Beth Moore has gone wayward. Moore says she speaks to and hears from God audibly, in full sentences, that He gives her revelation that is not in the bible, and that He tells her to teach these new concepts. Moore says she has visions sent by God. She says she had a supernatural experience writing her book "When Godly People Do Ungodly Things" which was actually occult channeling, or 'automatic writing.'  She promotes and practices the Catholic mystical activity of contemplative prayer, does not handle the word rightly, and infuses all her teachings and studies with pop psychology and personal experience, which she tacitly AND and not so tacitly demonstrates by her teaching as equal to scripture.

To see a pairing above should not be surprising, because that is the natural trajectory of the natural man. Evildoers gather together. Last year Moore partnered with non-believer Roma Downey at a new bible study/convention. Last year Moore also praised and recommended the book Jesus Calling by Sarah Young, another book written by a woman claiming to have heard directly from God.

It is ironic that Meyer and Moore met at Meyer's broadcast studio to talk about "unity." They are already united - in satan. For all are either under satan, or under Jesus. There is no in-between. There is no gray area. Either one is in the truth or he hates the truth.

I do not sit with men of falsehood, nor do I consort with hypocrites. I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked. (Psalm 26:4-5)

Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither. In all that he does, he prospers. The wicked are not so, but are like chaff that the wind drives away. Psalm 1:1-4

Do I not hate those who hate you, LORD, and abhor those who are in rebellion against you? (Psalm 139:21)

From Christine Caine's Facebook page Aug. 13: That time you sat and watched
Beth Moore & Joyce Meyer talk about unity
& you could not stop the tears streaming down your face...

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Further links on this topic:
At what point does one declare a teacher like Beth Moore false? Here's some help.  

World View Weekend, Topic: Joyce Meyer and Beth Moore, Brannon explains why he is now willing to call Beth Moore a false teacher after several years of giving her the benefit of the doubt. Guest, Justin Peters. Topic: Our phone lines fill up with listeners that want to respond to the actions and statements of Beth Moore. [Ed Note: sometimes certain of the WVW clips and programs go behind a paywall after a week. If you plan to listen, listen soon.]

Do Not Be Surprised: Beth Moore talks 'Unity' with Word Faith Teacher Joyce Meyer


48 comments :

  1. Elizabeth, you chose excellent, just excellent, verses to apply to this situation!

    SISTERS IN CHRIST, FLEE THESE TWO FALSE TEACHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -Carolyn

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    1. Thank you Carolyn! I found this on my twitter stream. It had been retweeted by someone who follows me and I follow him. The tweet simply said: "We ARE judged by the company we keep."

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  2. On Joyce Meyer's web page today:

    "Some of the most important words you'll ever utter are what you say about yourself. Learn to speak the Word of God into your life and receive its power."

    I don't think King David ever said the most important words I'll ever speak are about myself...

    Does the bible record David saying "I am powerful... am smart...I am righteous..." Nope.

    Wouldn't the most important words we ever speak ...be about God? Yes, indeed, I believe we have a winner

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    1. "Some of the most important words you'll ever utter are what you say about yourself."

      Well..... if by 'important', she means "impactful to your eternal destiny," and if those words are "I am good by my own power," then...yeah. Speaking great words about yourself are very pivotal statements to hell's inhabitants.

      How about those in heaven? "I am not good by my own power, I am a wretched sinner, I am helpless to gain heaven without God's mercy."

      Naturally, I don't believe for a second that that interpretation is what Meyer had in mind when she said it.

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    2. I am sadden to read that Meyers and Moore appeared together on TV. I thought Beth Moore was a solid biblical teacher from the little exposure I had to her - a bible study on John and a Women of Faith conference. I am a 37 year missionary and moments off the field are times to get fed, Beth fed me from the word. But I do understand why she is appearing with Meyers, it opens up a whole new market to her. I saw Franklin Graham sitting with the pink wigged TBN lady, Jan Crouch, at his 2011 crusade in Port au Prince. She provided his satellite uplink for a live feed to US donors and they flew away from the stadium in a helicopter after he delivered one of his father's reworked sermons. Sad, you can't even count on the Graham name; I wrote to SBC president, Mohler, about it, of course there was no response. American ministry and church are big business, folks, and TV is the BIG time. Beth Moore needs that connection with Joyce and Joyce needs Beth's credibility. So glad we escaped the politics and power of a denomination. God is still God.

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    3. You're right, david said none of those things. However, he did say the he was fearfully and wonderfully made, and made a little below the angels. He also regularly described himself as righteous and devoted to God in the psalms.

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  3. Meyer and Moore in unity?!?!?! Words fail me.

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    1. Soooooooo sad that some of you don't realize that these two Godly women have been blessed by Him to reach others for Him and to help people like you, myself, and others....

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    2. Kat, in return, *I'm* sad you can't see ungodly teaching when it hits you. These two women have not been blessed by God to help, they have been blessed by satan to hinder.

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    3. Meyers is a documentable heretic, adhering to damnable JDS Jesus Died Spiritually lies. Moore on the other hand I cannot say her teaching are unbiblical, certainly not for hearing His voice or seeing a vision; it really depends on what she is hearing, what she is seeing and how she is applying or interpreting these experiences. If they do not err from biblical doctrines and are merely direction for her personally, then there is not scripture to condemn her. However her association with Meyers is forbidden by the written word of God; Meyers is a false teacher as best, a false prophet at worst.

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    4. The Cannon is closed! Don't matter what she thought she heard or saw.
      We walk by faith, not by sight.
      If you want to hear God speak, read your Bible. If you want to hear God speak audibly, read it out loud.

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    5. The cannon may be closed, but God still speaks through His Spirit. The logos is closed, the rhema is certainly not.

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    6. For those unfamiliar, logos is the written word, and Jesus Himself. Rhema is the spoken word. The canon is closed (canon, one 'n' :) and that means the rhema is not speaking new whispery information to people like Beth Moore. Today, rhema means the illumination by the Spirit of the written word or the spoken proclamation of preachers of the word.

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  4. Birds of a feather deceive together.

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  5. I just received an invitation to a Beth Moore evening Bible study at a nearby church. Now I'm reading about the Beth Moore/Joyce Meyer alliance, and I'm stunned. I'll continue to read all I can, but having ANY kind of association with Joyce Meyer is a huge red flag. I've decided not to go to the Bible study, I'll tell the leader why, and I'll continue to read about what's going on. This is definitely not good.

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    1. You've made the right decision. Read the rest of Elizabeth's excellent stuff on Beth Moore, and spread the news―both the bad (about Moore's heresies and affiliations), and the good (the real Gospel).

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  6. Anonymous: You read my mind! I just had the same experience and have had a conflict about going to a Beth Moore study which is 2 minutes from my house. I don't like the red flags I'm getting. Until now, this study (with other authors, etc.) has been solid, but.....we are a very diverse group, and I don't know if the leader would stand against Beth's teaching if it became necessary. The group is doing I-II Thess. Back to googling more, and then emailing the leader..... Thanks! It's nice to know I'm not the only one concerned!

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    1. I'm replying to myself!! I've been in touch with the leader. She sent me an article that is well over 3 years old. Of course, it doesn't address Moore/Meyer at all. I thanked her, and said that even if some other concerns were a matter of semantics, I will never get past the Meyer/Moore liaison. I've also contacted both Meyer and Moore to see if this thing is still "on" and what it might look like, plans, etc. Still not going to the Bible study.

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    2. I have been a Christian now for fourteen years and Ive been studying the Bible closely everyday for the past seven years. A few years ago I started listening to Joyce and Ive attended a few of Beths Bible studies. With my Bible open on my lap I have yet to hear anything from either of them that even remotely contradicts the Bible...with the exception of the fact that Joyce preaches to men and women. That has always bothered me. Even that I have found mixee responses from the Bible and the few times I sought counsel from pastors thet also pointed out the Deborahs and Miriams of the Bible. I wonder if those who are heeping this judgement on Beth and Joyces shoulders have ever actually listened to either one of them speak...or are you forming your judgements from the potentially twisted tales you hear from others. Both Joyce and Beth have played some role in the close amazing relatinship I have with my best friend and Lord and Savior, Jesus. And I thank them for that and hope they continue to encourage people to have a close relationship with God.

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    3. Hello Anonymous,

      You ask a legitimate question, is my information first hand, or second hand? I have heard both women directly. I have attended Moore's Living Proof conference in person and taken her bible study by satellite video. I have read her books. I have seen Meyer on Youtube and also watched her on her own online website, as well as seen her in live interviews

      If you have been studying the bible every day for 7 years and have failed to notice that both women are heretics then something is drastically wrong with your discernment. Please pray to the Spirit to open your eyes. You are in danger.

      Meyer in particular has denied the atonement and teaches that Jesus stopped being the son of God; and Moore has accepted and teaches that the Catholic Church is a Christian denomination, part of the Bride, and she often teaches from her own vain, extra-biblical visions and not the bible.

      Here are two links for you to read actual quotes with original sources.
      http://carm.org/joyce-meyer
      http://carm.org/beth-moore

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    4. I dont get it. I read all the page on joyce and just couldnt make it thru Beths whole page. These two women are just trying to bring people to God. They arent perfect. They obviously have made some serious boo boo comments. That is plain to see. I dont think either one of them say these comments to misguide people. They grt so focused on making some point that I dont think they are scrutinixing every word that comes out of their mouths tho they should. Ex: JMs comment that she is not a sinner. I dont think her point is we are not siiners. Her point is God died to set us free from sin. Take that gift, receive it, and live in that. Dont walk around condemning yourself. God died to set u free from that condemnation. Thats hrr point. So why scrutinize these women. Is it bc they r women preaching? Im a little torn on this topic myself. I know what Paul ssays but what about Deborah andMiriam. Both were prophetesses. (Sic) My point is both these women have encouraged hundreds of people to give their lives to the Lord and both have encouraged hundreds more to grow as Christians and become better examples for Christ in a dark world. How many new believers and growing Christians are you encouraging in your life by shredding these women's words? JM needs to be careful of what she says but her heart is for God and for bringing people to God. Btw My name is Amber. Only anonymous bc I dont have any of those accounts.

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    5. Hi Amber,

      If you don't get it, then please pray to the Spirit to help you. You need to get it.

      A few boo boos? This is the word of God! Teachers will be held to strict account.

      False teachers always encourage people to come to the Lord. If they encouraged people to come to satan, then you would know they are a false teacher. But...WHICH Lord do the encourage people to come to? The one who personally gives them dreams, visions, and teachings? Read Rev 22:18. The one who used God to make them prosperous on earth? Read 1 Tim 6:5. No...in fact both women preach a false Jesus. Read Galatians 1:8

      You don't think they make these comments to misguide people? You are wrong. A false teacher's motivation is greed. Read Micah 3:11, 2 Pet. 2:3, 2 Pet. 2:14, 1 Tim. 6:5

      How many people have I encouraged by shredding these women's words? Lots I hope. Denny Burke wrote we must “refute those who contradict” (Titus 1:9). The idea is very simple. Pastoral ministry is not merely a building up, but also a tearing down. As Paul would say elsewhere, it involves tearing down every speculation and lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God (2 Corinthians 10:5). To fail to do this is ministerial malpractice and harmful to God’s people."

      Here is the link for you, 'How to Identify False Teachers"
      http://www.dennyburk.com/how-to-identify-false-teachers/

      Then again, the bible says that some people PREFER false prophets. Read Isaiah 30:9, 2 Tim 4:3.

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    6. Like traveling back cracks ourselves is hopeless. Our failures and mistakes and problems can't be hidden from God--they can only be forgiven by God. That's the only way we can ever come to terms with the dust, to let the Lord sweep it away. "He who cover his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsake them will have mercy." {Proverbs 28:13 NKJV}

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  7. I would like to see a video of Joyce saying all of these things you accuse her of saying. I have watched/listened to her for years and have never heard her say any such thing.

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    1. Great! Have you clicked on ANY of the links provided in the essay or in the comments section?

      Here are MORE links.

      http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/TM13-10/the-devilish-puppet-master-of-the-wordfaith-movement-justin-peters

      Testomony of an ex-Meyer follower
      http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/2010/08/31/ex-word-of-faith-testimony-of-a-joyce-meyers-follower/

      horse...water...drink

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    2. How about a review of one of her horrid books?
      http://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2010/10/joyce-meyer-another-teacher-to-avoid.html

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  8. How can anyone listen to either of them for more than a few minutes and not hear the problems with THEIR doctrine ("THEIR" doctrine because it is certainly NOT the doctrine taught in the Bible I read). JHU

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    1. Amen to that. I've never listened to Beth Moore, but I have heard Joyce Meyer quite a few times. Her program is on my local Christian radio station, and I literally can't stand to listen to it for more than a few minutes.

      Sometimes I do listen as an exercise in spiritual discernment, but the fact that she speaks just to rouse the crowd every 2 minutes (or more) really bothers me, so I end up turning it down/off. She speaks more about herself and her experiences than God and His Holy Word. I appreciate her transparency about her own sin, and sometimes hearing about a teacher's experience will really minister to people. However, Joyce's program is more like a personal journal with snippets of "Can I get an Amen?" to involve the audience. She does not deliver a sermon that points your eyes, heart, and mind to Jesus Christ.

      She is entertaining and very charismatic, and I do not know whether she is truly saved from Hell or not, because I have never met her and do not know her faith as a born-again child of the Father. However, I do believe that her teachings are false and drive people to exalt themselves, yet in a very cunning way that is not immediately discernible. She uses the Word of God to justify that we aren't perfect, but instead of preaching on salvation by grace through Jesus' sacrifice, she preaches on how to "stop putting yourself down" and how to "live life to the fullest" (not exact quotes, just a gist).

      Yesterday she preached that we shouldn't be so worried about impressing people. I mean, she is right, of course. But this is not a concept found in the Bible. If she would have just focused it on God instead of herself, she could really have some power in her teachings. If she would have quoted a verse such as Psalm 23:1, "The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want," then she could've illustrated that we should not follow that which others want us to flock to, but that which the Lord has deemed as Holy.

      For now, her teaching is like a self-help book that sometimes uses Scripture and the Cross to back up the concepts. What is even more infuriating is that her website's "What We Believe" statements are solid, Biblical, Christian teachings (with variations in theology which occur across all Protestant denominations), but her radio program does not follow this. If it did, then it would be a blessing.

      https://www.joycemeyer.org/AboutUs/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

      Why doesn't she teach on those Biblical concepts that point people to the Son of God? She should do that instead teaching self-centered feel-goodery that points people toward themselves and having a "good life because God wants you to" (not a quote, but the essence of her teaching).

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  9. Ihr benötigt keine zusätzlichen Lehrer.
    Die gute Botschaft steht im Römerbrief, alles andere ist "nur" reine Psychologie, die niemand braucht.
    Christen sollen in der Gnade und im Geist Gottes leben.
    Das ist alles.

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  10. You gave links to show JM as a false prophet, how about something to prove this about Beth Moore?

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    1. Hi Bonnie,

      Thanks for reading and also for your question. The fact that Joyce Meyer is easily seen as a false teacher and yet Beth Moore partners with her and affirms her, demonstrates Moore's falsity, or at the very least, massive lack of discernment as 2 Corinthians 6:14 says.

      But you're right, a one-time partnering, or a lack of evidence should *not* be the only basis for calling a teacher false. Unfortunately, the evidence is mounting and copious showing Moore's falsity. Here is a link to a page I put together explaining in detail why Moore is false. Then at the bottom there are 54 links from me, other women, and pastors who show through the Bible that Moore's teaching is false. I invite you to prayerfully peruse it. I am about to add three more links to that page. As I said, the evidence is mounting.

      http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2014/07/all-beth-moore-critiques-here-in-one.html

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  11. I think the thing that ai understand the least is how anyone that brings people into accepting Christ as there aloes and Savior can be evil, or a false prophet. Aren't you judging just a little too harshly for being such a biblical bunch of Christians. It is because of Joyce Meyer that I gave my heart to Jesus Christ. It is because of her that I read the Word and it is because of her that ai found a bible believing church, was baptized and participate in Bible studies. I know many more like me that have experienced the same, both man and woman. Shame on all of you judgemental Christians, shame on you.

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    1. Shame on you, judgemental Kate Foss, shame on you for judging this essay and its author so harshly and judgmentally. Shame.

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    2. I to have been helped by Joyce meyers but the Lord has shown me false teachings she does as well. You have to have discernment and in my walk with Jesus he has shown me things more and more. The Bible should be before any person on tv or book or pastor. If it doesn't agree with Gods holy Bible KJV then you know it is from antichrist spirit. God bless. Yes Beth Moore is a false teacher. Movies she premotes beware. Witch craft etc is being used in many many churches and people blindly watch them and purchase and promote these things. Spiritual warfare !!! Study your Bible and fasting has helped me. God shows us alot in fasting. Good luck Kate :)

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    3. Hi ANonymous,

      Thanks for the comment, I'm glad Jesus has "shown you" more and more- you mean by the written word through diligent study, right? I agree everyone should be in the Word, not jut KJV but also good translations like ESV or Holman or NAS.

      How has God shown you things through fasting?

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  12. Really? I think she has a valid point. Don't forget who is in control here. It's God. You may think Joyce Myers is a false prophet, and I won't disagree that all things she says may not come straight from the Bible, but I have never met a pastor who doesn't put his own interpretation into his messages, after all they are merely human. But listen to this woman's testimony. It's BECAUSE of Joyce that this woman came to Christ. God IS using Joyce Myers to bring people to Him, as much as you would like to deny. God can take something meant for bad and use it for His glory. So don't judge this woman for her testimony.

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    1. 1. She has no valid point.
      2. Just because "God is in control" does NOT mean there aren't false teachers. You're mixing metaphors and avoiding the biblical truth. (verses here- http://www.openbible.info/topics/false_teachings)
      3. Since there are false teachers, and no one in their right mind would deny that they do not exist, and we are repeatedly warned about them, all that remains is to determine which of the teachers out there today are false and which are not. We use the bible to determine that, not some anonymous lady claiming to have converted through Meyer's teachings. Pffft.
      4. Meyer and Moore are false. I used scripture to show this above. You show me scripture showing me she's not false.
      5. A personal testimony means nothing in terms of discerning who is false and who is true.

      The Jesus Meyer preaches is NOT THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE. She does not preach this same Jesus who ascended. She preaches a Jesus of her own imagination. (Acts 1:11)

      Personal experience never, ever, ever, ever forms the basis for determining truth. (2 Pet 1:19). As a matter of fact, just because Ms Foss SAYS she came to faith, based on Meyer's preaching no less, I highly suspect that she is saved at all. How dare I say it? Millions of false conversions clog the Christian airways at this very moment. Many will say to Jesus on His day, "Lord, Lord...) and He will repudiate them to their face. (Mt 7:21-22). Think Mrs Lot. Think Simon the magician. Demas. Judas.

      6. The irony escapes you. She judges me for my judgment of Meyer as false. If she says don't judge, SHE should not judge. Log, meet eye.

      Enough said.

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  13. Elizabeth,

    I appreciate your info. JM I was aware of, Beth, no. But it's no coincidence that just as I was about to start a BM study I looked around and found this info. Needless to say I have research to do.

    What have you found Biblically for befriending or interacting with a person, Christian, who believes false teachers? (A gal I know from a previous study is a JM follower ands all the participants of the group know it and have not brought it up. I plan to check the Word myself but thought I'd ask what you know, Biblically. )

    There are Bible teachers who I've respected as truly teaching the Word, like Nancy Demoss and Greg Laurie. Then not so recently did I heat Nancy was into the "draw the circle" thing. Greg, I don't know but a friend who I respected as having sound judgement mentioned there were issues with him due to who he was teaming with.

    It's getting to the point where we need to simply go straight to the Lord and not allow someone else's interpretation of the Word be a strong source of info.


    Yolanda

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  14. I stopped reading after reading, "She promotes and practices the Catholic mystical activity of contemplative prayer..". Really, no need to attack the Christian Catholic Faith.

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    1. Jamie L,

      "She promotes and practices the Catholic mystical activity of contemplative prayer.." is a statement of fact. How is that an "attack"?

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    2. There's plenty of reason to attach the Christian Catholic faith, it is full of heresy and false doctrines. https://carm.org/is-catholicism-christian

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    3. Being Catholic is not Christianity. Not if you are hailing Mary and praying to any statues and making your own Bible and not allowing the use of a Holy Bible. That is Idolatry and satanism. It is written. I pray your eyes are opened to the True Jesus Christ. God bless you. :)

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  15. Great conversation..let me just add, we MUST be vigilent about who we align ourselves with as professing Christians. I, too, used to think all these famous preachers, teachers were of GOD, because they claim to be, but the Holy Spirit has brought it to my attention, they are wolves in sheeps clothing. They all teach some truth, but if at any time they are aligning with false words, and others, such as those who are freemasons, it is very EVIL...I am convinced we must study the word of God ourselves, ask the Holy Spirit to counsel and comfort us. HE wants to do that and we are told that's who HE is...I am sure HE is saddened when we look to others and not HIM for guidance...I felt a need to repent for listening to these false teachers. I use to believe what they said about their lives and how GOD has blessed them, but I have no doubt, the blessings aren't from HIM but satan.

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  16. Personally, I can't take anyone who takes a selfie very seriously. It's just to worldly, vain, and immature....kind of like having multiple facelifts.

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  17. Beth Moore supports Hillary Clinton. This exposes her true evil spirits. Moore is demonic. Demonic women are attracted to the demons in Clinton.

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    1. Beth Moore does not support Hillary Clinton. Nothing Moore has said or done indicates this.

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